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User comments btil June 2003

Joe,

Unless any M2, 3 or 4 that you buy has had a recent CLA you should expect to add another $300 to the cost of the camera to have this done. "Mint" ex&les of these cameras are MORE likely to need a CLA than "user" ex&les of these cameras. Why? It's just like exercising your body. If you don't use it you lose it.

Right now as a user camera the M2's are the better deal. There were more made than the M4's so the price stays a little lower. You don't want the M3 if you are going to be using a 35.

If you can somehow swing it I would suggest that you try to get an M6. Like new M6's are going for around $1,200 right now on Ebay. If you shoot slide film having that meter in the camera is wonderful. If you have a hand-held meter you'll be fine with the earlier M's. You might also be on the lookout for an M4-2 or M4-P.

I don't think the price difference between M6's and earlier non-metering M's is great enough to warrant buying them today if you plan to actually use them.
 
Jim,
Thanks for the advice, after shopping around a bit I'm beginning to see what you mean about the insignificant price difference. Do you have a favorite 35mm lens? I've read the 2.0 is a little bulky compared to the 35 summicron, is it significantly larger. I am in the Annapolis, MD area and the only store, within about 100 miles, that has any leica equipment for me to check out and handle is Penn camera and right now they have next to none.
 
I've had the last version of the pre-asph Summicron for about 10 years. It's a great lens.

Is the newer asph summicron better? Yes, from what I've read. If you see yourself shooting a f2 all the time you *may* see some improvement at the corners. But that assumes you are viewing test images made from both lenses side-by-side. By the time you hit F4 both lenses are identical. You may want to see the Erwin Puts review of these lenses at http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/mseries/testm/m2-35.html<P>

You are right in that the Summilux is bigger and heavier. Also important is that the Summilux and newer asph are longer than the older 35/2 pre-asph Summicron, which means they extend more into your field of view into the lower right corner of the viewfinder.

Remember, it's easy to fall prey into the belief that if you don't have the most recent version of the lens you won't make good photographs. I catch myself at times doing that.

I have an M2 that is beat to hell (not by me) that I had CLA'd a few years ago. That camera has a 35/2.8 Summaron that is pretty loose in the barrel and looks like it has some cement separation or something surround the edges of the front element. The back element is still pristine. That lens STILL makes images of amazing quality.

My advice, especially when you are trying to keep prices down, is to go for a used pre-asph summicron. If the prices are close go for the asph. I've seen mint asphs going for about a grand, which in Leicadom is a great deal. An M6 with a 35 Summicron is a great package.

If I shot in really low light all the time I would add a 35/1.4 Asph. I would still keep my 35/2 summicron for times I don't need the speed and want the smaller, lighter package.
 
[I bought a 1.4 35mm Summilux in'68(that's pre asph all right) It is still my favourite lens. Absolutely magic for interiors, available light, and stopped down for landscapes, happy snappies etc. ]
 
Dear Joe

I've come in on this a little late.

In relation to your question about TTL metering and Ms. I've personaly found when you don't have TTL metering your method of working is different. eg. you become more aware of changes in the ambient light conditions and can react to it more or less instinctavely with some experience under your belt. Paradoxically, not having the conveinience of TTL gives you a certain freedom. You are forced to be prepared in terms of SS and Ap. settings. Using the depth of field scales to set focus at the hyperfocal for particular Aps. also helps you to react quickly when the need arises. A bit like sail v. power boating. Under sail you are made to be constantly aware of your environment.

For critical stuff I use a spot meter. However, I've found the later versions of the M4 type Leica meters are quite handy for a quick check of what the light is doing.

I can't think of any shots that I've missed by not having TTL. I'm from the school that beleives to get the most of your M you use it regularly. When I have the supposed flexiblity of a Nikon with AF and Matrix for work, I'm lost. It tend to want to fight the camera. The techies in Japan do not know what my lighting conditions are or where I want my focal plain to be. I do not subscibe to be view that auto-go-magic functions necessarily frees you technically to concentrate on image making.

The M2 with 35 cron or lux is a perfect uncomplicated combo that will give you so much freedom in your photography. Once you hit the groove you will never go back. Its the only way to shoot.

On the matter of "Frankenstein" Leicas. It's a great advantage of Leica Cameras that planned obsolecance is not part of the phylosophy at Solms. They still make the all the parts for older models, and if you want you can tailor make a set up that suits you. Also, I and every body else here can still fit a 50 year old lens to a M body even the brand new M7. How many Nikon and Cannon CRFs do see used these days? Can't use EF and ED glass on them.
There are still plenty of folk out there quite happily cliking away on their 40+ year old Leicas and getting great service out of them.

good luck craig.
 
Thanks to all for your comments, i do appreciate them. i have my heart set on a nicely used m2, 35 'cron or 'lux. Although i would like a black body it seems out of the early cameras the M4 in the same condition is higher priced, because its more collectible (from what I've heard)? I heard you can paint the chrome on M's and it would not be worse than the paint leica used back in the day, I think some collectors out there might strike me dead for even mentioning it, but is there any validity to this at all.
 
One day after I win lotto I'm going to one of the big Leica collectors auctions and buy an fully boxed unused M3 or 2, unpack it, put film in it and start taking pictures. Might not get our alive but boy that would that be fun!!!

craig
 
you might check at b&h bhphotovideo.com, they had a black body m2 the other day in the used section for $800, and rated at an 8. if it's not gone, it might be a good buy. good luck.
also, i've seen websites of people who offer the service of repainting M's. it's expensive, about $1000, I think. good luck.
 
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