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Contax ND

Rico,

How many shots did you take with the Contax ND before launching into your critisicms? You settle for the Canon D30 which pales in comparision. I am also programmer of 30 years and have done alot of photography. And while I agree on your concept of a road map, it infurates me to hear such criticism and discounting of the Contax philosphy from somebody who (as your posting implies) has not really worked with the system. If you read all the postings from regular users of the system, you would read that some are satisfied, and some are not. But if you read similar reviews of the Canon equipment (D-30,D60) you will also read of people very please with the equipment and people that are more critical of those systems shortcomings. Keep in mind, that up until recently, Contax offered the ONLY full frame CCCD. This was a technical achievment. The camera can and does take superb shots. But like any piece of equipment, there is an audience and target user base. Perhaps a sports photographer may not be inclined to shoot with the system, but a portrait photographer would be thrilled with the results.

michael.
 
It is NOT how the marketplace works in the slightest. OEMs require typically12-36 months to design a new technology product. Market intelligence is key for a successful product introduction. Contax was, and will continue to be aware of competitive market product introductions. To say they were the first to introduce a full frame 35mm digital camera is very naïve. The CCD chip had been available for over 2 years. Integration within the 35mm format is and was the challenge. Every OEM is aware of what its competition is working on. We, the unsuspecting public, are not aware. We may think we are as a result of reading the rumors, the buzz in the magazines, etc. but when we hear it, you can be sure it is very old news to the OEMs. When a new product is introduced, we are left with research, testing, word of mouth, reviews, and above all, the OEM reputation for high quality products AND not using "creative marketing" to take advantage of the public. Contax and every other OEM laughs when you support them by tacitly accepting technology obsolescence as a new way of life. It lets them off the hook. We now live in the world of the expensive consumable item. What used to be the ten dollar throwaway become one hundred. Computers came our way, and a new paradigm was established- the consumable computer, sometimes $500, sometimes $2,000. I was burned because of my trust in Contax, NOT because of technology obsolescence. I will be more cautious next time. Some of you will undoubtedly say I will be less silly or naïve next time. But I choose not to become jaded by blindly casting off corporate responsibility to that vague excuse know as technology innovation. How many of you who persist in supporting Contax for this ND camera, were the first to cry foul when American car manufacturers offered unreliable dangerous cars to the unsuspecting public. In fact, the American public response was to buy foreign. Now I am afraid, the foreign manufacturers may have learned a bit too much from our disposable culture- pass it along to the public and make them the responsible and also the victim. In this information age, we cannot be learned about everything, and many times what we are supposed to be knowledgeable about. How many of you really understand the science behind digital technology. Every nuance can lead us to believe almost whatever the OEM wants. I am a scientist and do not pretend to understand the practical equivalent of the underlying science. Those of you that do, are probably relying on WYSIWYG and then thinking you understand that relationship to the multitude of underlying physics and software variables, which are interpreted by the market. We all try is live lessons learned. I as a user, trusted Contax too much. Supporting Contax in this arena, is to not trust them. You have shifted your trust to the uncertain times, and accepted poor product innovation as a consequence. These are fast moving times, but please do not lose your trust by accepting a diffused technology market and excusing the OEM. I am not ready to accept that the bar has been raised to a ten thousand dollar disposable culture. I doubt we all are, even those who continue to support Contax.
 
Sorry to play devil's advocate but isn't film much simpler to use? - no worries about complicated software. With slide film, what you see is what you get and you don't have to manipulate it on the computer to get the picture you wanted in the first place. Also you know what characteristics to expect from the film.
John
 
>Wow,

Give me a break. I failed to say "full frame cccd for the 35mm format". I think that anybody who studies the issue would have understood my intention. How many times have you been suckered into upgrading Windows or another piece of hardware after owning that piece for less than a year. Yes product cycles may very well occur in 36 month cycles, once the major version of a piece of hardware (in this case a camera) is release subsequent versions do not take 36 months. What about Canon. Seems like in 24 months they have had the D-30, D60, D1 ... are you equally upset that they have had 3 significant products in 2 years? I dought it. You are probably pleased that improvements are being made. The ND is the first product and it does work. Perhaps, it has bugs, or will require some more firmware upgrades, but the product does take spectacular images in the right hands.

Bye the way ... I just spend the last hour upgrading my new QMS 31 printer w/ the latest firmware update beacuse it would time out on printing a 30 megabyte tiff. Nature of the beast. Yes, it is irratating the the printer is two weeks old, and I have to upgrade the firmware. But I work w/ computers and operating systems and I realize the problems with leding edge technology. Contax is leading edge.

michael.
 
But a film camera will last for years and deliver the goods all the = time without the need to keep upgrading. =20
 
Mehrdad

I haven't sold it yet! Still got the N1, 24-85 and 100MS for sale. However, I am not selling because I am dissatisfied with it, I am selling to get more Hassy equipment as I wish to concentrate more on MF.

Simon
 
John,

You're right. There are some advantages (and disadvanteges) to film. I won't rehash old arguments, but once the digital workflow is worked out, you do have a better chance of taking some better photos ... in my opinion ... w/ digital for some of the following reasons:

Instant feedback. No scratches or dust to deal w/ if you print through a computer system. You tend to take alot more images ... thus having a chance of capturing a better shot ... A natural way of organizing your photo projects w/ the assistance of auto numbering, dates, etc.

anyway ... there are hassels ... but there are also rewards.

michael.
 
John,

Too bad you're across the pond - I have a Jobo ATL-3 I'm disposing of and will let go at a real bargain. Having done all my darkroom work from the days when you had to color-balance every batch of neg film and literally every box of paper even from the same batch, I for one will not miss it.

Today's film and paper are much more uniform, but there are still variances when you go to print, especially if you use different labs or processes, films etc. I for one do little processing on my digital shots: some gamma, contrast and brightness tweaking - a couple of minute's worth maybe on a difficult shot I mis-exposed, otherwise less than a minute, then push the button. You want to compare that to printing a chrome?????? PULEEZE!!
happy.gif
.

In fact, I shoot my ND like I used to shoot chromes, although I did mostly negs because I wanted prints. The stuff I get from my ND easily equals or surpasses what my RTS III and Reala gave me, with a couple orders of magnitude less hassle (remember I did my own development and printing). If you use a lab, sure, no printing hassle, but then you depend on somebody else for interpretation, and of course the time lag and $$ per print go way up.

At least in my situation, digital is heaven at the current level of image quality that the ND started off in 35mm, and which the new Canon and Kodak, and soon enough Nikon, are continuing and improving.

We now have a new paradigm for image advancement, which changes completely how the camera business and technology behave in photography.

Before, camera hardware advances brought some improvement but the real drivers were the film and chemical processes, independent and dissociated for the most part from our picture-taking equipment. Now the image sensor and ancillary electronics in the body IS the film and base development process (not the recording media, as is often mistakenly associated by marketing).

In order to maintain a reasonable level of upgradeability, the new bodies (unlike today's designs) will have to be designed with replaceable sensor modules. This will require maturation of the current technology, but it will come.

Then we'll be back to the base body housing the basic mechanical, optical, power-management, set-up and monitoring facilities, and the exchangeable sensor module providing the imaging core, i.e. the film independent of the camera, but this time around with dynamically adjustable parameters and easily upgradeable technology.

ND III for me, EOS 3Ds for others ... can't wait.

DJ
 
My thoughts have nothing to do with your "full frame...." comment; I do not understand your comment. You missed the point, or perhaps unfortunately, understand the point. Your printer is not 6-10K, nor your computer, nor your firmware upgrade, nor the Canon, nor the Nikon. BTW, I said 12- 36 months. I am fully aware of the time to first product as opposed to subsequent iterations. For the record, if Contax made an "upgrade" available to right their wrongs, I would be one of the first to take advantage of it, and would have renewed confidence in their business practices. But not if the upgrade was another 10K, as opposed to the Windows or free firmware upgrades you refer to.
 
Michael, you are right in stating that the new age of reoccuring obselesence is a fact of life. The D30 was replaced by the D60 in 16 months at $1000. less.

However, there is a demarkation point for any of this equipment. That point is reached when you get enough meg, or whatever, to do the job you need done. For me, I thought the ND had reached a point that I need not leap at every new innovation. My customers could care less if it's from a Contax, Canon or Nikon.

That the camera did not live up to expectations means my problem still needs to be solved, and Contax has the money I would've used to solve it.

I also disagree about everything being hunky-dorey once the workflow is worked out. It's NEVER worked out. I've become a "digital mechanic" constantly fixing stuff, downloading or upgrading, or shipping gear off to be calibrated. Nothing in a computer is stable or constant. A system conflict can leap out and bite you at any time. I love digital, but it is never to be trusted to be exactly the same from day to day. It's all like dealing with a person instead of a machine.
 
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