G
Guest
Sonny,
this was a typo (or a wish?). It should be of course RF.
this was a typo (or a wish?). It should be of course RF.
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G
Guest
I'm sorry, Dirk, I personally don't see the new Rollei 35RF offering as being all that important in the M community. I don't think it brings anything new or particularly interesting.
I can't see one Zeiss 40mm f/2.8 lens being much competition to Leica lenses. No-one would want to buy this lens for use with a Leica M, because there is no 40mm frameline and f/2.8 is too slow. No doubt there will be other lenses to follow, which might prove to be more competitive.
As to the Rollei 35RF body, as others have said it's just a rebadged Voigtlander Bessa R2. Cosina have done a lot of rebadging, e.g. for Voigtlander (Bessa L, T, R, R2 - their own brand anyway), Nikon (FM10) and Olympus (OM-2000).
(BTW, I agree with your perception that the shape of the camera resembles a Contax G).
I can't see one Zeiss 40mm f/2.8 lens being much competition to Leica lenses. No-one would want to buy this lens for use with a Leica M, because there is no 40mm frameline and f/2.8 is too slow. No doubt there will be other lenses to follow, which might prove to be more competitive.
As to the Rollei 35RF body, as others have said it's just a rebadged Voigtlander Bessa R2. Cosina have done a lot of rebadging, e.g. for Voigtlander (Bessa L, T, R, R2 - their own brand anyway), Nikon (FM10) and Olympus (OM-2000).
(BTW, I agree with your perception that the shape of the camera resembles a Contax G).
G
Guest
Ray,
I have mixed impressions about the Rollei RF introduction. First, it could be a win/win situation.
People who can not afford a Leica M body right, but want to start long-term with the M-system could buy this Rollei starter kit and have the option later on to buy leica lenses without the expensive Leica body (although there is still partly this frame issue). Leica would be pleased because this would offer them higher sales in lenses, which is currently a ratio of ca. 1/3 (1 M-body for 3 M-lenses). The hesitation for the buyer to do this might be less, because of the brandname Rollei and Zeiss.
On the other hand the Rollei seems to have soem features many would like to have on their M6-body, if they do not like the M7 (1/125 flash speed, 1/2000 shutter speed, better filmloading, film window, slimmer body etc.). So there will be Leica users, who buy this body as a second, more modern body - similar to the Konica when it was introduced, a best seller by the way.
What I am thinking also about is what happens, if Rollei offers more lenses. I heard on the net rumors about a 24mm and a 135mm. These could be used also on Leica M (in addition to the already announced 50/1.8). I do not know how the resolve then the framing issue. This could hurt Leica sales and as we all know this is not something Leica really can afford in the moment.
This all depends of course on how well the lenses will be. I am not sure yet, whether all these lenses will be newly designed, or - and Rollei did this alraedy often in the past - whether they are just old designs in a new mount. Zeiss licensed years ago some old designs to Rollei in Medium Format. I have to check this.
Anyway, the more competition the better - at least for us
In a few weeks/months we will know more about that.
In general I am thinking about adding in this forum some threads about other M-compatible brands like Konica Hexar RF etc., if there would be any demand for it. I find it interetsing to have all choices in one forum to compare better and see what others think about it. My own estimate is, that at least 40-50% of the Konica sales are from Leica owners, who have already a Leica M.
Would love to have some feedback from other members, whether this would be interetsing for you.
Dirk
I have mixed impressions about the Rollei RF introduction. First, it could be a win/win situation.
People who can not afford a Leica M body right, but want to start long-term with the M-system could buy this Rollei starter kit and have the option later on to buy leica lenses without the expensive Leica body (although there is still partly this frame issue). Leica would be pleased because this would offer them higher sales in lenses, which is currently a ratio of ca. 1/3 (1 M-body for 3 M-lenses). The hesitation for the buyer to do this might be less, because of the brandname Rollei and Zeiss.
On the other hand the Rollei seems to have soem features many would like to have on their M6-body, if they do not like the M7 (1/125 flash speed, 1/2000 shutter speed, better filmloading, film window, slimmer body etc.). So there will be Leica users, who buy this body as a second, more modern body - similar to the Konica when it was introduced, a best seller by the way.
What I am thinking also about is what happens, if Rollei offers more lenses. I heard on the net rumors about a 24mm and a 135mm. These could be used also on Leica M (in addition to the already announced 50/1.8). I do not know how the resolve then the framing issue. This could hurt Leica sales and as we all know this is not something Leica really can afford in the moment.
This all depends of course on how well the lenses will be. I am not sure yet, whether all these lenses will be newly designed, or - and Rollei did this alraedy often in the past - whether they are just old designs in a new mount. Zeiss licensed years ago some old designs to Rollei in Medium Format. I have to check this.
Anyway, the more competition the better - at least for us
In a few weeks/months we will know more about that.
In general I am thinking about adding in this forum some threads about other M-compatible brands like Konica Hexar RF etc., if there would be any demand for it. I find it interetsing to have all choices in one forum to compare better and see what others think about it. My own estimate is, that at least 40-50% of the Konica sales are from Leica owners, who have already a Leica M.
Would love to have some feedback from other members, whether this would be interetsing for you.
Dirk
G
Guest
Dirk,
I assume that the Zeiss-built lens(es) for the Rollei 35RF will be M-mount, not screw-mount like the Coaina/Voigtlander lenses? If so, then the question of frameline selection arises, because it looks to me as if the Rollei 35RF has the same Voigtlander and Konica manual selector switch for the framelines as the Bessa R2. There is no way the lenses could select the framelines automatically and so it's possible that the Zeiss lenses designed for the Rollei may not have Leica-style selection cam built into their mounts. This would make them a bit useless with a Leica M body.
With a screw-mount lens, on the other hand, you must use an adapter to mount it on an M camera, which at least enables you to buy the right adapter to bring up the frameline pair that suits the lens, i.e. 35+135, 50+75 or 28+90.
Of the focal lengths mentioned for the Rollei-Zeiss lenses (40, 50, 80, with possibly 24 and 135), only 50 and 135 would be compatible with Leica M framelines, assuming there is no selection problem. (It beats me why anyone would want both 40mm and 50mm). From all this, I still doubt that there would be much temptation for M owners to use these Zeiss lenses instead of Leica lenses.
Regarding your suggestion to start categories for M-type cameras from other manufacturers (e.g. Voigtlander and Konica), why not? I'm sure there would be quite a bit of interest. They feature quite frequently in other Leica forums/lists.
I assume that the Zeiss-built lens(es) for the Rollei 35RF will be M-mount, not screw-mount like the Coaina/Voigtlander lenses? If so, then the question of frameline selection arises, because it looks to me as if the Rollei 35RF has the same Voigtlander and Konica manual selector switch for the framelines as the Bessa R2. There is no way the lenses could select the framelines automatically and so it's possible that the Zeiss lenses designed for the Rollei may not have Leica-style selection cam built into their mounts. This would make them a bit useless with a Leica M body.
With a screw-mount lens, on the other hand, you must use an adapter to mount it on an M camera, which at least enables you to buy the right adapter to bring up the frameline pair that suits the lens, i.e. 35+135, 50+75 or 28+90.
Of the focal lengths mentioned for the Rollei-Zeiss lenses (40, 50, 80, with possibly 24 and 135), only 50 and 135 would be compatible with Leica M framelines, assuming there is no selection problem. (It beats me why anyone would want both 40mm and 50mm). From all this, I still doubt that there would be much temptation for M owners to use these Zeiss lenses instead of Leica lenses.
Regarding your suggestion to start categories for M-type cameras from other manufacturers (e.g. Voigtlander and Konica), why not? I'm sure there would be quite a bit of interest. They feature quite frequently in other Leica forums/lists.
G
Guest
I would be interested in discussion of the Konica as I was considering buying one. Although I went off in another direction in the end it is still something I bear in mind. I'm sure others would be interested too.
John
John
G
Guest
> According to Zeiss' website, the Rollei High Fidelity Transfer" is a multilayer coating co-developed by Zeiss and Rollei. It was done as the T* lenses couldonly be done at Zeiss Oberkochen to small batches. They also say that the optical performance of HFT is so close to Zeiss T* that "one can hardly detect any difference in all practical picture taking." And finally, Zeiss admits that any lenses produced by Carl Zeiss for Rollei at Oberkochen are actually T*, but are designated HFT!
G
Guest
Let us wait for some comparative analysis of the 40/2,8 against the Summicron-C 40/2 or Summarit 40/2,5; the 50/1,8 against a Summicron and the 80/2,8 against the Elmarit-M 90/2,8.
G
Guest
This is really kewl... I was kind of worried about my G1 film camera because of all the digital noise going on, but rangefinders seem to be having a renaissance.
Lovely!
Lovely!
G
Guest
I have a Bessa R and a Leica M7. I will never buy another Bessa-like body. What I would find exciting in this is the area of wide-angle lenses. I already have a Heliar 15mm and a Scopar 21mm, but having a Biogon 21 would be much better, not to speak about the Hologon 16.
I am an architect and I think Zeiss could attract some of my colleagues too if manufacturing the aforementioned lenses in M-Mount.
Personally I don't like this play with Rollei name, Voigtlander name, when these are simply Cosinas. I have an old Voiglander and this is a masterpiece not a plasticy Bessa R.
Rudolf
I am an architect and I think Zeiss could attract some of my colleagues too if manufacturing the aforementioned lenses in M-Mount.
Personally I don't like this play with Rollei name, Voigtlander name, when these are simply Cosinas. I have an old Voiglander and this is a masterpiece not a plasticy Bessa R.
Rudolf
G
Guest
"Personally I don't like this play with Rollei name, Voigtlander name, when these are simply Cosinas. "
Whatever, Rudolf.
You should thank the stars that SOMEBODY still makes rangefinders at all. As for these being "simply" Cosinas, that's a darn snobby attitude. Not everyone has $2000 for an M7 body (I don't). The Bessa Rs I've been looking at are kewl little cameras, and I've heard the R2s are even better. The viewfinder is great too.
So, get off your high horse, lose the attitude. I've had two Porsches that I couldn't keep pouring money into (a new water pump every 30k miles?). It's good that Yashica is into Contax and Leica has somebody to keep them financed and that Cosina is making good film cameras.
I want to buy a Leica, I really do, that's why I hang around the 'boards. However, I can afford Contax lenses, or Cosina, and I just can't afford Leica right now.
-DC
I am so bitchy tonight, it's been a long week, and I am just off work and GOING HOME! Yaaay! James Bond weekend.
Proud owner of a Contax G1 and three lenses. 90mm, 45mm, 35mm
Whatever, Rudolf.
You should thank the stars that SOMEBODY still makes rangefinders at all. As for these being "simply" Cosinas, that's a darn snobby attitude. Not everyone has $2000 for an M7 body (I don't). The Bessa Rs I've been looking at are kewl little cameras, and I've heard the R2s are even better. The viewfinder is great too.
So, get off your high horse, lose the attitude. I've had two Porsches that I couldn't keep pouring money into (a new water pump every 30k miles?). It's good that Yashica is into Contax and Leica has somebody to keep them financed and that Cosina is making good film cameras.
I want to buy a Leica, I really do, that's why I hang around the 'boards. However, I can afford Contax lenses, or Cosina, and I just can't afford Leica right now.
-DC
I am so bitchy tonight, it's been a long week, and I am just off work and GOING HOME! Yaaay! James Bond weekend.
Proud owner of a Contax G1 and three lenses. 90mm, 45mm, 35mm