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Contax Digital in YC Mount

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dja

>>Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 2:54 pm:

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GOOD NEWS(MAYBE)I got the feeling from my conversation with Contax that there might be
a Contax Digi 35mm body that will take the Y/C mount-Lets hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

larry <<

Sorry, can't let that go so easily...Can you share any specifics? What leads you to comment on this possibility?

Dave
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Sorry to knock the N mount, but it's going nowhere - fast. Lenses are huge and slow to focus: is this really an implementation of Canon USM? Even by Contax standards, prices are unreasonable. Unless Kyocera can engineer a monumental advance in AF technology, pros and consumers alike will buy Canon, Nikon, Minolta, or Pentax. Reality bites.

That leaves the C/Y product line: known quality, many affordable items, and an installed customer base.

The 35mm SLR market is crowded and entrenched. The associated DSLR market is hot, and getting hotter. Contax, with a pitiful, thin product stream and zero advertizing, will never break into the mainstream. Like its historical Leica rival, Contax is boutique. Kyocera may have technology, factories, and $14,000,000,000 market cap, but customers won't eat the dog food.

Therefore, I believe a C/Y DSLR can succeed as a low-volume boutique offering: complete with 2nd-tier sensor, 2nd-tier software, and no customer support whatsoever. Contax simply has nothing else to offer the world.

Now, call me a fool and a Zeissaholic, but I'm ready to pay for this DSLR. Contax can take heart that Leica has announced a digital back for R camera. From a tiny company, this is a big financial bet, and means Leica believes a few well-heeled lunatics want an SLR with real manual focus, digital sensor, and quality construction.
 

dwkozy

New Member
I would agree completely. I just bought the Canon ds1 but would keep = my Zeiss C/Y's if this were a reality ----- Original Message -----=20
 

bunthorpe

Active Member
Please count me among your "few" well-heeled lunatics who want an SLR with real manual focus, digital sensor, and quality construction. We love our (painfully expensive) Zeiss lenses, and want to take them with us into the next (ultimately digital) life.

But one uncertainty is whether lens design will change so much to optimize a digital sensor, that our hopes are misguided? The idiosyncrasies of wide-angle lenses excepted, will our precious old lenses still offer exceptional performance with a digital sensor? Any expert opinions on this matter?
 

europanorama

Well-Known Member
Interesing ! > >More details, please ! > >Yuri

hundreds of people must open your non-sense message. why are we here? to read more. and we will see more when its available.
 

europanorama

Well-Known Member
Now, call me a fool and a Zeissaholic, but I'm ready to pay for this >DSLR. Contax can take heart that Leica has announced a digital back >for R camera. From a tiny company, this is a big financial bet, and >means Leica believes a few well-heeled lunatics want an SLR with real >manual focus, digital sensor, and quality construction.

digital leica will have a small chip, lens-factor will be x1.7 or similar
 
J

John_bird

While we on this subject how about a digital back for existing C/Y bodys with a couple of digital only wide angles(17mm&13mm) with less coverage for the digital sensor(to help keep the price down) as I think it is imposible to use a full size sensor with this mount.
John
 
O

ou1954

>Posted by david willson on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 2:55 am: > >Please count me among your "few" well-heeled lunatics who want an SLR >with real manual focus, digital sensor, and quality construction. We >love our (painfully expensive) Zeiss lenses, and want to take them >with us into the next (ultimately digital) life. > >But one uncertainty is whether lens design will change so much to >optimize a digital sensor, that our hopes are misguided? The >idiosyncrasies of wide-angle lenses excepted, will our precious old >lenses still offer exceptional performance with a digital sensor? Any >expert opinions on this matter?

I have no expert opinion to offer, just what I have heard from Olympus since the beginning of their digital offerings, and from some other companies.

They say that digital image sensors do not respond well to light hitting the sensor at angles other than 90 degrees. Olympus was the first, now followed by others, to include a final element with rectified this problem. It seems to have to do with the fact that the 4 light sensors which make up a pixel at the focal plane (GGRB) are in a slight indentation.

Maybe this has changed, maybe it's all marketing. We do know that digital sensors have been used in home video cameras for a long time and no one has complained.

This same argument has been used in favor of the Foveon sensor, but there have been criticisms about that sensor also.

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It would indeed be nice if we could use our nice Y/C lenses in a system with an angle-independent sensor.

DAW
 

rico

Well-Known Member
John,

I say ixnay the digital back concept...

It's unlikely that Leica has enough money to recast an R body into digital form (their financial situation is precarious). The R digital back is being developed by Imacon and Kodak who, I'm sure, will shoulder the financial burden. In short, clever branding by Leica lets them conserve cash.

Leica's approach isn't compelling economically to the user, and makes no sense ergonomically. Contax can afford to underwrite a digital C/Y body with battery, sensor and electronics compactly housed. Those components comprise the major cost of a DSLR or digital back. Yes, you pay for another body, but it's just a metal envelop and, unlike the Leica approach, there is no space wasted for vestigial film storage and transport mechanism. (That R film advance lever is a riot!)

About sensor crops...

Between the incident-angle problem and sensor cost, I could imagine Contax imposing a crop factor. For wide-angle fiends like me, this obviously hurts. But it hurts tele users, too, because we then carry the size and weight of 135-class optics without enjoying the full image circle. Plus, CZ glass is too good to crop!

A smaller sensor makes ergonomic sense if the camera and lens image circle are reduced proportionately. Oly has the right idea with the 4/3 system (e.g. 300/2.8). Nikon is clearly trying to compete with the surprisingly light D2H and new DX lenses. Owners of old Nikon lenses are left lugging their underutilized glass. Are we C/Y users trapped on Nikon's Highway to Hell? (You can see I don't like APS-sized sensors!)

BTW, I started my C/Y system to get away from wide-angle trauma courtesy the D30 - talk about regression!
 

marc

Active Member
I think Contax could at least do the same thing as Nikon did: Producing a digital body with the MF-mount and, say, a 1,5 to 1,7 crop. Then Zeiss could come up with a 12-35mm Zoom lens to cover the wide-angle range - specially designed for the digital sensor with a smaller image circle, thus not as large (and expensive) a lens as the N-series ones. I think, they could sell a lot of these lenses and bodies to all of us C/Y users...
 

tbc

Well-Known Member
> Marc C. Schurr on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:00 am: > > I think Contax could at least do the same thing as Nikon did: > Producing a digital body with the MF-mount and, say, a 1,5 to 1,7 > crop. Then Zeiss could come up with a 12-35mm Zoom lens to cover the > wide-angle range - specially designed for the digital sensor with a > smaller image circle, thus not as large (and expensive) a lens as > the N-series ones.

It would be nice, but I doubt if Zeiss were to make anything, bodies, lenses, that they would be price-competitive with Nikon or others. A physically smaller lens may cost somewhat less to produce, but again, development costs and the smaller sales volume of Zeiss products will probably keep the cost high.
 

elsha

Member
I don't why, but it makes lot's of sense, at least for me, that the now digital Contax body should be built upon the AX. It will be far more easier to move the digital sensor than moving the entire film plan and winding mechanism. So let's keep hoping for a new Contax DX.
 

jvirtue

Member
I've just bought a Canon 10D, I've stuck a couple of Sigma f2.8 zooms on front because I believe you don't need the resolving power of expensive glass on a digi camera, and there is NO WAY I'm paying 5 grand for the COntax N Digital. Also, the body, either Cx or Canon, will be out of date next year, and 5 years from now it'll be a novelty. I refuse to get rid of my Zeiss Lenses for my Contax's , so, yes, a digital back, which is trade-in upgradeable as the years go by would be ideal. Of course this would mean Kyocera re-releasing a few MF body's, ie. RTS3,( or perhaps 4 ), AX etc..

Surely this would not be beyond the experise of Kyocera????

If only we could live without bean counters, we'd all be happy.
 

matthias

Active Member
Don't worry: You may use your ZEISS lenses in MF mode and without automatic aperture setting on your CANON. Theres an adapter which fits. See the thread about "Zeiss lenses for other bodies" or so. matthias
 

bunthorpe

Active Member
But do you have to "stop-down" with the adapter.
So , focus wide open and then stop down before you press the shutter?
This sounds a little cumbersome ?
 

europanorama

Well-Known Member
i just had the idea that kyocera would offer a cheap digital camera for the old ae or mm-lenses plus eventually and adapter-lens to correct the known digitalcamera-nondigitalcamera-lens-divergences. the new olympus/kodak-system has solved this. body to cost 2000 euro. camera to be offered in september 03.this could be the end of the contax n-system. why not, if there could not enough money be generated. pentax is on the way to think like this. all lenses, even m42 will work on the new istdigital.
 

clive_kenyon

Well-Known Member
My own opinion for what it is worth is that Kyocera will not produce a C/Y mount digital SLR.

Getting us C/Y mount owners to upgrade to the N mount is where the profits can be maximised to offset the huge development costs involved in keeping pace with the digital revolution.

If the next ND is to be soon announced at the price indicated in the digital thread (sub $2,000) then it would not be financially feasible to launch a C/Y mount digital body at the 4/3 ratio or similar in my humble opinion.

I can however hope that a digital G3 will be a possibility using the exisiting G mount once the retrofocus issue has been resolved.

As for the digital back option; A company actually patented a universal digital conversion for any 35mm camera, but it has come to nothing yet. I still feel that there is mileage in that idea.

Clive
 
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