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Logic be damned I bought an ND

WHAT??? You used a noisy background on purpose???
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That's the problem with small JPEGs. I wish they'd outlaw dial-up so we could start posting MB+ images in wild abandon ...

Really not bad at all, but you had to do some hoop jumping, and at least for me the times I use high ISO (other than when I screw up, like below) tends to be when the lighting is not all that great.

I guess my problem is now I'm spoiled by the 1DsII
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. I don't like talking about a competing camera in another's forum, but hey, I need to justify to myself dropping that huge wad for it ...

Just so there's understanding at the relativity of things, I shot this inadvertently at ISO 1250 coming out of the hotel in the relatively early morning, no extra processing (including noise, left at 0) other than my usual adjustments in ACR:

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Dirk, getting this thing down to 800 pixels and below 130KB was really trying my patience
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But getting back, I think Marc points out that you can certainly get decent ISO 400 images from the ND with some care in your exposure and some extra post-processing, a far cry from being unusable.

Cheers,

DJ
Tired and crabby from shovelling snow, but getting ready for some winter scene shooting tomorrow ...
 
Mark,

The shot looks very nice, and the great tones are apparent which I really like about this camera. The color rendition is excellent as well. In the ex&le it is the noise in the grey area that I am referring to. Though I am sure there is texture there I am also confident that there is a fair amount of electronic noise showing up.

Here are some ex&les I quickly put together with no processing to give an idea as to what I see out of the camera. I ran outside, before it was getting dark today, and shot the same shot with the ND and my D70. Both were at iso400, F/5.6 and at 50mm. I used the 50/1.4 for the Contax and a REALLY crappy zoom for the Nikon, set a hair below 35mm to simulate the 50mm. My bag with my Nikon primes was in my other car or I would have used it to make things a hair more apples to apples in image quality, but that's OK. I also am uploading ex&les from the D70 at ISOs 800 and 1600 for comparison.

I am sure that "Noise Ninja" could have improved all of the ex&les, and possibly made them quite outstanding, but I wanted to highlight what I'm seeing straight from the camera. No sharpening was applied in camera to any ex&le any I only cropped and resized in PS.

These are obviously outdoor shots with very moderate light levels that make any camera more "noisy". In a controlled environment, like a studio, I am sure that the 400 setting on the ND would be quite usable in skilled hands.

Have a look. To me the tonality and depth in the Contax shot is terrific, though I must say the lens is partly to blame on the Nikon side. It is the very apparent and large noise that I noticed and commented about.

Contax ND:
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D70 @400
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D70 at 800
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D70 at 1600
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Yes DJ, all standard background papers have a texture to them which all the cameras show.

Anyway, the point wasn't wether other cameras performed better at higher ISOs. We all know they do... especially cameras that have a few years of sensor development on the ND... or are almost 3 times the meg count of the ND.

The point was that the camera IS useable at ISO 400 rather than
being absolutely useless as it's been suggested. I see this camera as one to use in decent lighting conditions, or the studio, but still capable of some lower light work when needed. I certainly wouldn't select it over any of the Canons for photographing a candle lit ceremony. But for stuff like I posted above eariler it actually does as good a job or better than all but the 1DsMKII.

ISO 25 is a trip with this camera and is a very useable feature in the studio when using strobes ... allowing wider f stops for ex&le.

It also is still the best of all of my digital cameras when it comes to B&W conversions ... maybe because of the noise ... LOL.
 
As the saying goes, the right tool for the right job.

I'm still amazed at the ND's dynamic range, even disregarding it was the very first full-frame digital. Often when switching or upgrading systems I look at images and wish I'd shot them with the new system. But not so with the ND images. I find them extremely satisfying.

I actually want to revisit some of my Photoshop work on some of my ND images from when CS first came out. I sort of went over the top with the Shadow-Highlight function on many of my images from Java. They have a very over-processed look to them. Yes, all too often more is not necessarily better
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Cheers,

DJ
 
... Thanks you all so much with alle these detailed ex&les. Maybe next time we haev to lift the file-zize barrier temporarley for those specisfic tests. I have nothing against comparisons between different brands by the way.

I do think Marc made a very good point. Everybody knows that certain cameras are just better in this ISO ranges like 400 and higher. But this was not the question in this thread which we tried to elaborate.

Almost none of the other DSLRs have a fullsize chip. And the few, which have fullsize chips are not cheap. They cost the same or more then a ND. Add to this the price fo new lenses, which you have to buy, if you only have Contax gear yet.

At the moment, for me a DSLR with a non-fullsize chip is a no-go, except I would get one for 300-500 USD as a "toy" to play with. Everything else would be too expensive IMO since I definitely will go sooner or later for a fullsize DSLR.

We have seen over the past 2 weeks a lot of announcements for new films. Slides and print film. There is no necessity to rush into digital if the price/performance ratio is not the same as for analogue cameras. Sales of DSLR rocket again last year. They have been roughly the same amount of DSLRs (in number of pieces) sold last year as analogue SLRs. BUT the DSLRs have 4x times the tumover, which meand they are 4x times more expensive. No surprise I guess
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I know, for professionals it is a different story and they very often have to switch to digital. But I am thinking now more for the advanced "amateur", who does not need to make money with his/her equipment.

So IMO the ND is worth to consider, if you are considering to add a DSLR to you analog equipment and if you "only" request at the beginning the same performance as with your analogue equipment. Only downside risk is repair possibilities, if Kyocera leaves the business.

In 2 years time the performance expectations will be a different, since the innovation cycle of DSLRs are so big, that everybody will expect more even from the entry level DSLRs.

I expect many DSLRs announcements this year from various brands and this will give pressure on the prices of these DSLRs and on their performance. It will be more and more like it was 10 yeras ago in the analogue SLR market. This is very good for the consumer
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Thanks again for all your efforts and ex&les to help to find the right answer to the ISO 400 question. Do not hesitate to post more comments about this and other issues with the ND. This can only help others in the buying decision.
 
Hey all,

I am getting used to processing the ND files and though I am still "over processing" a bit and losing some detail they are getting there. Pursuant to our 400 ISO performance discussion a week or so ago here is a shot at 400 that I processed with Noise Ninja.

If you haven't tried Noise Ninja you should snag the demo version. It is a pretty darn impressive program. I lost some detail in my dog's jowels (spelling???) but I am still tweaking the settings a bit. That 130K makes it a fun challenge to crop and save
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Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well and thanks for all the tips.

Kent
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Nice, Kent! Looks pretty natural at least at this magnification. I'm going to check NN out.
 
Kent, I wonder if you could use Noise Ninja to process the same black car image you posted on Feb 26th?

I have never dare to shoot over ISO 160 with my ND.
 
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