IIIc problem

Discussion in 'Q&A for better images' started by menkalinan, Jun 22, 2004.

  1. menkalinan

    menkalinan New Member

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    Hi
    Does anyone know what could have caused the light patches on this photo, taken with a IIIc and Voigtlander 25mm lens? About 5 of 36 on this roll were similarly affected, this one being the worst. I think all the affected photos were taken with the 25mm lens (maybe a coincidence) but most were fine including 2 others taken within minutes of this one with the same exposure.[​IMG]
     
  2. lcl

    lcl Member

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    I doesn't look like internal reflections. My guess is an external light source, possibly something reflecting sunlight.
     
  3. hektor

    hektor Guest

    Dear John,

    Have your tried it with other lenses?

    It appears to me the shutter curtain needs replacing, however more testing is needed before that expensive decision is made.

    Justin
     
  4. Hello John,
    Maybe there is a light leak from the top of your camera, trough the accessory shoe. A missing screw?

    regards,

    Erik.
     
  5. ttam

    ttam Active Member

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    Hello John,

    I don't believe that it's the shutter curtains (pattern too ill-defined), nor light leaking through the accessory shoe as there is no access from the casting where the accessory shoe is anchored to the 'film chamber.' The threaded holes for the accessory shoe screws don't go through the casting. I have a few questions:
    1.) where on the roll do these 'leaks' appear - beginning, middle or end?
    2.) are the patterns similar in shape?
    3.) are the affected frames, adjacent or are they separated and if so, separated by similar number of frames?
    4.) have you experienced similar patterns OVER several rolls of film?
    5.) Where were the affected roll/rolls kept BEFORE you load it/them into your IIIc, i.e., in its/their original canister/s, out of the canister/s?
    6.) Where were the affected roll/rolls kept AFTER you removed it/them from your IIIc, i.e., back in its/their canister/s or unprotected without any cannister?
    7.) if canisters were used for roll storage, were they opaque (can't seen through) or translucent (whitish)?
    8.) to what ambient temperature were the affected roll/s subjected?

    There are reasons why I posed each of these questions.

    Tsun
     
  6. menkalinan

    menkalinan New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. In answer to your questions:
    There is no missing screw.
    The marks have been seen only on one roll, though I haven't had the camera long. I bought it from a dealer and the first roll showed shutter problems so I had it repaired at the seller's expense. I've run a few films through it since then with no apparent problems. All the frames that show these marks were with the 25mm lens. This is the first film I've shot with the 25mm lens, so most of the frames were taken using that lens. The marks are clearly visible on frames 27, 31 and 32. I think frame 4 may also be affected.
    The patterns are all similar in shape and appear at about the same position in each affected frame.
    The film was stored in the original canister before and after and the canister was translucent (Fuji).
    The film would have been subject to temperatures between 15 to 25 C whilst in my possession.

    I also have a IIIf so I will try the 25mm lens out on that but it may be a couple of weeks before I have time.
     
  7. ttam

    ttam Active Member

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    Thank you, John for supplying the answers to my many questions.

    1. the affected frames are not consecutive and and with the exception of frame 4 (possibly not showing the symptoms), are near each other. Answer to Q3 - also suggest this possible prognosis - fogging due to light leakage from a 'defective' the film cassette.
    2. "patterns are all similar in shape" - suggests that the first possible prognosis MAY be correct.
    3. "only one roll" was affected - supports prognosis.
    4. answers to Q5 and Q6 - support the initial prognosis as the Fuji plastic canisters are TRANSLUCENT - light can and does enters it.
    5. answers to Q2, Q7 and Q8 also support the intial prognosis. If temperature affected the roll of film, the ENTIRE roll would be affected and symptoms would NOT be as you showed or described.

    From your answers and WITHOUT my personally examining your camera, I must conclude that you experienced light leakage from the film cassette (i.e., film was 'fogged' outside the camera) and NOT from any physical defect from your camera.

    It would be possible but INCONCEIVABLE that the film manufacturer created the patterns from poor manufacturing techniques. A defective cassette is a possibility.

    On thing that IS not as popular as it was decades ago is user reloads from bulk rolls of film stock. That's reason I didn't ask you about this as it's not a popular protocol now.

    John, remember, "You get what you paid for!" My advice is gratis, so please accept this for what it's worth.

    Good luck.

    Tsun
     
  8. jtrevino

    jtrevino Active Member

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    My second guess would be slightly leaky curtains. The repetitive position and shape of the patterns would seem to indicate this. However, this would only occur when the affected frame was the last of a series and the camera was left uncapped for a length of time. Is it possible that your camera has red curtains? I had a IIIf that had leaky red curtains, those are very prone to cracks.

    Jorge.
     
  9. menkalinan

    menkalinan New Member

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    This is an interesting theory. My IIIc has one red curtain (visible when the shutter is not cocked) and one black curtain (visible when the shutter is cocked). I think I need to run tests leaving the lens uncapped with the shutter cocked and not cocked to see which curtain may be leaking. Looking at the position of the affected frames (which were never at the end of a series) I suspect it may be the black curtain at fault.
    I have now had a film processed taken with the 25mm lens on my IIIf and everything is fine with that so I think I can eliminate the lens.
     
  10. hektor

    hektor Guest

    Dear John,

    The red curtains were a war-time fitment in the absence of quality material. That yours is still working at all is amazing.

    Definitely time for replacement and undoubtedly the problem, in they have perished sufficiently to be transparent.

    Justin
     
  11. menkalinan

    menkalinan New Member

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    Mystery solved perhaps?
    I have now had this camera repaired. The repairers said that the problem was caused by missing parts, particularly light baffles. They also said that the 63-year old red shutter curtains were in perfect condition and should be good for another 25 years. Not bad!
     

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