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Lack of Sharpness with 20D

T

terry_pickford

If anyone can assist it would be most helpful. I am feeling very frustrated, I am a wildlife photographer using the canon 600 IS lens for the first time coupled to a 20D at speeds of 1/1600 sec at f6.3 but still my images after processing in Photoshop dissapointingly are not sharp. The camera parameters are set to 1 with a sharpening amount of 3 in Digital Phot Professional (V 1.1).

One additional problem I have failed to resolve, when I open a RAW file for the first time in Digital Photo Professional's main page, only a partial image appears. If I then open in 50,100,or 200 % the image will appear in full view.

I am running windows ME on a 900Mz PC with 500Mb ram. So there should not be a problem.
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fotografz

Well-Known Member
The initial images from the 20D do often look a bit unsharp. Like all digital cameras, they need sharpening and often some contrast adjustments in post work.

I'd strongly suggest investing in PhotoShop CS, and investigate the addition of some sharpening programs on top of that.

Try visiting
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and check out the programs available. Fred's Sharpening Pro allows lots of sharpening to be applied without the halo that usually accompanies normal PS sharpening.

500 meg may not be enough. It sounds like your computer is starved for RAM. It's cheap theses days, so try beefing it up. Bet your issues disappear.
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
Nice shot Terry.

I had the same problems. Firstly Digital Photo Professional will not display properly with ME, I had to upgrade to XP, it's worth it (it's a lot more stable as well).

Secondly, parameters will only effect jpg's, not RAW files.

Not sure what processing you did in photoshop, but that looks like it needs a slight contrast increase, a bit more colour saturation, and most importantly some 'unsharp mask'.

Got to Filter/Sharpen/Unsharp Mask, and as a start set to 'amount' 50-100%, 'radius' 1 or 2 pixels, you can play around with the settings to get the right level but this should certainly get you going. Nearly all raw images will need USM.

It can be frustrating to see the soft images at first, but you will get used to the post-processing needs. And when you do, for wildlife the 20D is an absolute beauty. Isn't that 1.6x increase useful!
Cheers,
Matt.
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griffin

Active Member
> I have half the speed and memory than you have without the problem you describe with your computer. However, I do have the XP operating system, which is really much better than the Win-98 based system. Perhaps upgrading might be worthwhile. I will note that my computer has two large hard drives totaling 200 gigabytes and when I use photoshop I devote all my memory resources to it.
 
T

terry_pickford

Dear All,
The problem may be a technical one. I have just spoken with Canon UK who are aware of a front focus promblem associated with the 20D and other digital models when used with specific large lens, such as the 600mm IS.
I have attached a calibration chart taken today using my 600MM IS USM lens in conjunction with my 20D. As you can see everything is sharp from the datum mark towards the lens, but from the far side of the datum mark, everything is out of focus.

Terry

I have also spoken to a press guy who using the 1ds MK11 had the same problem. All his lens 300, 400 and 600 IS had to be returned to Canon along with his camera to be recalibrated. The situation was corrected and once the calibration had been made his problems were resolved.
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T

terry_pickford

Dear All,
The problem may be a technical one. I have just spoken with Canon UK who are aware of a front focus promblem associated with the 20D and other digital models when used with specific large lens, such as the 600mm IS.
I have attached a calibration chart taken today using my 600MM IS USM lens in conjunction with my 20D. As you can see everything is sharp from the datum mark towards the lens, but from the far side of the datum mark, everything is out of focus.

Terry

I have also spoken to a press guy who using the 1ds MK11 had the same problem. All his lens 300, 400 and 600 IS had to be returned to Canon along with his camera to be recalibrated. The situation was corrected and once the calibration had been made his problems were resolved.
32964.jpg
 

paul99

New Member
Hello friends,

i`ve had the same problems with focus, model 1ds. I sent my objectives to canon, nothing changed. I sent my camera for 6 times to canon and they tried to locate the chip on the right place. After an angry letter and after 11 month they sent me an new camera. Even now I have my problems with focus, but I can manage it .
 

bobbytan

Well-Known Member
FWIW, I had a back-focussing problem with my 20D, and it was consistent with the lenses I tested it with i.e. 50mm/2.5 macro, 85mm/1.8 and 135/2.0L. I had my 20D recalibrated at the Irvine Canon Center (in Southern California) and it's focussing accurately now.

You should do the calibration test with different lenses, as it may be that your lens and not your camera that is out of calibration. When sending in your camera to Canon, you should give them not only your camera body but all your lenses as well - so they can check them all ... gratis.

Bobby
 
T

terry_pickford

Canon UK Service Centre have asked me to take all my lens plus the 20D to their workshops in Elstree London on Monday. I poined out that I am booked for a photo shoot with the Equipment in Central Poland on Friday.

This means a round trip on just over 600 miles for me from my home in the NW of England. I hope that they can fix the problem, or I am stuffed
 

bobbytan

Well-Known Member
Terry

It took the Canon Center where I am (Southern California) only a few days to check and re-calibrate my 20D. I doubt if they will check it for you on-the-spot - unless they've told you that they would. Maybe you could try and get a loaner from them - if they can't fix the problem immediately.

I would advise that you test your 20D with your other lenses first, to see if indeed you have a front or back-focussing problem on your 20D, as the problem may well be with your 600mm lens.

Bobby
 
Hi, I am new to photography, a real amatuer is you may. I recently bought a 20D and after reading some of the problems associated with back focusing on long lenses, it kind of bothers me a bit. I do not have any long lens now, 100-300mm being my longest zoom, but I wanted to know if back focusing problem can be trace with shorter length lenses? Apart from the 100-300mm, I also own a 50mm f1.8, 100mm f2, Tamron 28-75 f2.8 along with the kit lens 18-55mm. However, I don't seem to have any problems with any of the above mentioned lenses as of now on my 20D. But my fear is after reading this problem, should I decided to get into long range photography in the future, would I then encounter such problem? Especially when the warranty has ran out and I have to pay for calibration or what not. Furthermore, I'm living in Malaysia and lens rental is non-existence so there is no way I can try out some long lenses. I don't have friends either who is into serious photography, all they use are P&S only. Please advise if there are anything I can do to alleviate this problem in the future or its sonething I shouldn't worry about. Thanks. Tim
 
T

terry_pickford

For all those of you out there having focus problems with Canon Digital cameras. I have just carried out the same calibration test that I did yesterday with the 20D, but this time using a D60 coupled to the 600mm f4 IS. The results were identical. I have attached the two charts to let you see the comparisons between the two camera. Each time the camera aperature was set to f4 and the chart placed at 45 degrees to the horizontal.
The first Image is the one captured with the 20D

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bobbytan

Well-Known Member
Tim

If you are currently happy with the focus accuracy of your 20D, you really have little to worry about, as it means that your camera body is focussing reasonably accurately.

With extremely long lenses, it gets a little more tricky as your zone of focus/sharpness is exceptionally narrow, so your camera's focus has to be incredibly accurate. I don't think anything less than a high-end or top-end DSLR will have that tight of a tolerance. For greater accuracy, you would probably have to invest in a 1D series body. You can't expect a $1,500 20D to perform as well as a $8,000 1Ds MkII.
 
T

terry_pickford

Interestingly a sports photographer I know who owns a 1ds Mk11 had exactly the same problem. Indeed he was the first person to alert me to all the problems associated with front focus with the canon D SLRs.

His problem was only resolved after high level talks at Canon took place in London last year. In the end all his expensive IS lens, plus camera were re-calibrated and now work fine.

I think the problem is with Canon's product. I understand that Nikon do not have this problem with their equipment.

There is a further consideration, once the focus problems have been resolved by canon for the particular camera and lens being used, will the lens work perfectly with other SLR cameras?
 
S

Stevied

Hi Terry,

I know this is a late reply but I hope you got your problem sorted.

Steve (originally from the NW of England Accrington to be precise, now in the USA)
 
T

terry_pickford

Hi Steve,
Nice to hear from you. Accrington is not too far from where I live. I visited the Canon Service Centre yesterday, left at 4am and arrive at 8.30am The lens and camera were calibrated in 1.5 hours and seemed fine. However, I have just returned from a shoot and I am still frustrated with my results. There is still not sufficient detail for me in the images, particularly around the eye. I shot in Raw and then saved to a tiff and then manipulated the image once again in Photo-shop.

I must be doing something wrong, or my software is not up to the job?

I attach two images for general comment.

Terry
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T

terry_pickford

Hi Steve,
Nice to hear from you. Accrington is not too far from where I live. I visited the Canon Service Centre yesterday, left at 4am and arrive at 8.30am The lens and camera were calibrated in 1.5 hours and seemed fine. However, I have just returned from a shoot and I am still frustrated with my results. There is still not sufficient detail for me in the images, particularly around the eye. I shot in Raw and then saved to a tiff and then manipulated the image once again in Photo-shop.

I must be doing something wrong, or my software is not up to the job?

I attach two images for general comment.

Terry
32982.jpg
32983.jpg
 
S

Stevied

>Hi Terry,

Im afraid I am the wrong person to ask about software as I am still at the very beginning of a VERY steep learning curve as far as serious photography is concerned. I am trying to find a class locally where I can actually sit and listne to someone who knows what they are talkign about. That seems to work better for me than reading it on a screen. Plus of course there is always the "classmates syndrome" (just made that one up) where you need to sit and discuss the class as there is always something that someone else may have picked up that I missed out on.

Anyway I hope you get it sorted one way or another.

Steve
 

stevehale

Member
Hello All, I have been following this thread about the lack of sharpness from the D20. I find Unsharp Mask on the large Jpeg files generated by this camera of: Amount 60 - 100% Radius 1 - 1.5 Threshold 0 - 2 will give good results, vary according to picture content. I would say that the images you have put up are in keeping with what the 20D produces, I cannot really say more because they are low res versions of the originals which can appear sharper on a computer monitor. You cannot not unsharp mask the 20D's images as the sensor has a low pass filter reducing the high frequency content, you must restore the HF content. Regards SteveH

>
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
Hi Terry,

I've tweaked the levels slightly, given a little bit of colour saturation (+10), and applied unsharp mask 100% radius 1 pixel. Is this closer to what you want?
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