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Limited edition for Contaxinfo members
- Thread starter dirk
- Start date
D
djg
Only if it's followed by a new edition of the ND ...
DJ
Too disgusted with Kyocera to give them more money until they get Contax back on track
DJ
Too disgusted with Kyocera to give them more money until they get Contax back on track
S
spluff
Dirk,
I'd go for that - good idea. Perhaps other exclusive Contaxinfo goods could be made available?
Cheers, Saras
I'd go for that - good idea. Perhaps other exclusive Contaxinfo goods could be made available?
Cheers, Saras
wilsonlaidlaw
Well-Known Member
As someone who's just bought an "ordinary" SL300R, I'm not amused. But serously, are you sure the black/black decison is right? It looks just great with the contrast of black leather on the titanium. I accept that you will want to make the "Contaxinfo special" look unique, so what about dark blue, dark green or burgundy leather in place of the black staying with a titanium finish or perhaps pale tan leather on a black finish. I can highly recommend the camera itself to all but another little point when you are talking to Kyocera, try to get them to upgrade the standard 128MB SD card to a 10MB/sec high speed one or even better a 256MB high speed. This makes a big difference to the features you can use such as movies and the digital equivalent of motor drive continuous shooting. Wilson
lotusm50_is_Jensen
Banned
How about just upgrading the SL300R to the SL400R with a 4 mp sensor??
In addition, I agree with the suggestion of the improved (faster, larger) SD card, and maybe a larger buffer.
In addition, I agree with the suggestion of the improved (faster, larger) SD card, and maybe a larger buffer.
dirk
CI-Founder
Hi Wilson,
we have not seen yet the black model in real, so we can not comment on how it will exactly look like with the black leather, but people told us it would look good. But if I look at i.e Leica M or R models, both versions are looking good. Regarding the memory card, this is a special benefit for the UK. All others get as far as I know only a 16MB card included which has neither this high speed. Nowadays many users have already their memory cards, so obviously that is a possibility of many producers to offer the product at a lower price.
We are sorry not having been able to announce this special edition earlier, but this idea and interaction was born only a couple of days ago.
But back to the colour question. You have to understand that this is the very first time to do something like this for Kyocera or any other manufacturer. No other camera producer has done this in the past. We can not stress that point enough. This is like an earthquake. Therefore there is at this time a limited influence we have on colours. It is quite expensive to run an extra production in a fancy colour, so we are glad that there is a possibility to have a different colour to the standard one at all available.
If this will be a success, and we think it will, then it will be a lot easier for us in the future to have more choices in colours, models etc.
I think this is a little, but very important first step towards a true costumer-oriented camera development. If we can convince Kyocera with a limited edition like this one, we might be able to bundle the wishes of Contaxians for future product improvements.
But this depends all on the support of the Contax users for these efforts. If Kyocera sees no interest in it, it is unlikely that they are willing to hear body or lens wish lists of users, who are at the end of the day not buying the stuff.
So with this we all can show Kyocera that we are still interested in Contax products and that it is worth it to have an open mind for proposals of our users. At the end of the day Kyocera has to make money. If they see that they can make money by offering products that Contaxinfo members are looking for, they will do it.
But this has to be done step by step to gain trust and credibility. Internet and especially camera community forums like ours are new for almost all camera-producers. Therefore this is a question of months and years of communicating with each other to gain credibility and the trust of the producer.
Many users including ourselves have said in the past that we would appreciate an open ear of Kyocera. This is now the chance we have. It is now up to the users, whether they "take the open hand" for their own benefit or not.
we have not seen yet the black model in real, so we can not comment on how it will exactly look like with the black leather, but people told us it would look good. But if I look at i.e Leica M or R models, both versions are looking good. Regarding the memory card, this is a special benefit for the UK. All others get as far as I know only a 16MB card included which has neither this high speed. Nowadays many users have already their memory cards, so obviously that is a possibility of many producers to offer the product at a lower price.
We are sorry not having been able to announce this special edition earlier, but this idea and interaction was born only a couple of days ago.
But back to the colour question. You have to understand that this is the very first time to do something like this for Kyocera or any other manufacturer. No other camera producer has done this in the past. We can not stress that point enough. This is like an earthquake. Therefore there is at this time a limited influence we have on colours. It is quite expensive to run an extra production in a fancy colour, so we are glad that there is a possibility to have a different colour to the standard one at all available.
If this will be a success, and we think it will, then it will be a lot easier for us in the future to have more choices in colours, models etc.
I think this is a little, but very important first step towards a true costumer-oriented camera development. If we can convince Kyocera with a limited edition like this one, we might be able to bundle the wishes of Contaxians for future product improvements.
But this depends all on the support of the Contax users for these efforts. If Kyocera sees no interest in it, it is unlikely that they are willing to hear body or lens wish lists of users, who are at the end of the day not buying the stuff.
So with this we all can show Kyocera that we are still interested in Contax products and that it is worth it to have an open mind for proposals of our users. At the end of the day Kyocera has to make money. If they see that they can make money by offering products that Contaxinfo members are looking for, they will do it.
But this has to be done step by step to gain trust and credibility. Internet and especially camera community forums like ours are new for almost all camera-producers. Therefore this is a question of months and years of communicating with each other to gain credibility and the trust of the producer.
Many users including ourselves have said in the past that we would appreciate an open ear of Kyocera. This is now the chance we have. It is now up to the users, whether they "take the open hand" for their own benefit or not.
T
tjs325x1
Dirk, In another thread you said "the AF in the SL300R is a nightmare". I don't think you would push this idea if the product was not at an acceptable level, but I gotta ask - is this camera worth having or not? Also, how is it to handle? Looks a bit small and awkward to me, but I haven't seen any pictures of it being used. My wife's birthday is coming up and she's ready to go digital - what do you think? Thanks
wilsonlaidlaw
Well-Known Member
Todd,
I can tell you from experience of using my SL300R for the last week that the AF works just fine. Compared to a G2, it is much readier to pick up a focus. For ex&le today I was at full tele zoom and it picked up a perfect focus on a may tree in bloom. This is the sort of thing my previous S5 Finecam just would not do and I suspect neither would my G2. Even in low light, especially if you set it to wide rather than spot it works better than OK. The only thing to keep an eye on is the exposure compensation. I am going to try playing around with the metering set ups but to date I have found you quite often need to tweak the exp. comp. This is the only thing against a non-enthusiast P&S user. It is fine in normal daylight but struggles in difficult exposure situations. The very rapid switch on is a delight and the rest of the ergonomics are excellent. With a high speed SD card it even makes a good sports camera taking about 3-4 fps. I just took a run of 50 shots at one go (on a 256MB 10MB/sec card) and then chose three shots from this bunch. Wilson
I can tell you from experience of using my SL300R for the last week that the AF works just fine. Compared to a G2, it is much readier to pick up a focus. For ex&le today I was at full tele zoom and it picked up a perfect focus on a may tree in bloom. This is the sort of thing my previous S5 Finecam just would not do and I suspect neither would my G2. Even in low light, especially if you set it to wide rather than spot it works better than OK. The only thing to keep an eye on is the exposure compensation. I am going to try playing around with the metering set ups but to date I have found you quite often need to tweak the exp. comp. This is the only thing against a non-enthusiast P&S user. It is fine in normal daylight but struggles in difficult exposure situations. The very rapid switch on is a delight and the rest of the ergonomics are excellent. With a high speed SD card it even makes a good sports camera taking about 3-4 fps. I just took a run of 50 shots at one go (on a 256MB 10MB/sec card) and then chose three shots from this bunch. Wilson
lotusm50_is_Jensen
Banned
Kyocera has already moved on to the 4 pixel version of this, the SL400R. Why can't they do this to an SL400R? Or is this merely a cynical way of getting rid of excess obsolete SL300R production? (that they otherwise would have had to dump on the market cheaply)
Why should the Contax version of this camera be less endowed than the current Kyocera version?
Why should I buy a Contax SL300R when there is the upgraded Kyocera SL400R available? Because they decorate it??
Why should the Contax version of this camera be less endowed than the current Kyocera version?
Why should I buy a Contax SL300R when there is the upgraded Kyocera SL400R available? Because they decorate it??
lotusm50_is_Jensen
Banned
John-
You might notice that the lenses in the Contax and in the Kyocera are exactly the same. Same focal length, same maximum aperture, same construction, made in the same factory on the same production line. I'm sure there MUST be some differences, right?
My point is, why don't they offer this as a CONTAX SL400R? Why waste our time with an obsolete (or at best, lower-end) model?? It's not that they can't produce the CONTAX as the SL400R. Why should we (and CONTAX) have to settle for less than they are demostrably capable of?
Is "Kyocera" now the flagship brand and technological leader, leaving "Contax" as nothing more than a name they tack on to sell additional production to "collectors"?
I look that the situation and it suggests to me that things do not look good for CONTAX. Is it really now no more than an afterthought and a secondary brand name for Kyocera? (they didn't even bother to change the model name when they made the SL300R a "CONTAX".)
You might notice that the lenses in the Contax and in the Kyocera are exactly the same. Same focal length, same maximum aperture, same construction, made in the same factory on the same production line. I'm sure there MUST be some differences, right?
My point is, why don't they offer this as a CONTAX SL400R? Why waste our time with an obsolete (or at best, lower-end) model?? It's not that they can't produce the CONTAX as the SL400R. Why should we (and CONTAX) have to settle for less than they are demostrably capable of?
Is "Kyocera" now the flagship brand and technological leader, leaving "Contax" as nothing more than a name they tack on to sell additional production to "collectors"?
I look that the situation and it suggests to me that things do not look good for CONTAX. Is it really now no more than an afterthought and a secondary brand name for Kyocera? (they didn't even bother to change the model name when they made the SL300R a "CONTAX".)
jsmisc
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your reply, Lotus,
Interesting conjecture. I don't think Kyocera would downgrade Contax because it is a name held in such high esteem as an upmarket brand and is synonymous with Carl Zeiss lenses, even if the name is not particularly familiar to the general public. Kyocera have to hold on to the cachet which CZ gives them.
I think that I have read (but I don't know where) that the SL300R Kyocera version lens is not as good and the camera itself is not as good as the Contax version.
Presumably the strategy is to bring out the standard versions first at less expense and then follow with a better Contax version with the T* coating on the lens. Maybe there are other differences as well, I don't know but there always used to be both a Yashica and a Contax version of their products under the C/Y mount system.
Perhaps a Contax SL400R will follow. (Perhaps the SL400R is not as good as the SL300R - more pixels on the same size sensor?)
Regards,
John
Interesting conjecture. I don't think Kyocera would downgrade Contax because it is a name held in such high esteem as an upmarket brand and is synonymous with Carl Zeiss lenses, even if the name is not particularly familiar to the general public. Kyocera have to hold on to the cachet which CZ gives them.
I think that I have read (but I don't know where) that the SL300R Kyocera version lens is not as good and the camera itself is not as good as the Contax version.
Presumably the strategy is to bring out the standard versions first at less expense and then follow with a better Contax version with the T* coating on the lens. Maybe there are other differences as well, I don't know but there always used to be both a Yashica and a Contax version of their products under the C/Y mount system.
Perhaps a Contax SL400R will follow. (Perhaps the SL400R is not as good as the SL300R - more pixels on the same size sensor?)
Regards,
John
I have a feeling that Dirk does not want us to "debate" which camera will be the special one. He has probably put in some hard work into negotiating this, with cameras that are available now!
And whatever you or I feel about the mechanics/optics/electronics of the Kyocera and Contax cameras ..... the one that was chosen/got offered has CONTAX written on it. This is the Contaxinfo Forum, as Dirk has pointed out to me in the "Power of Marketing" section, and elsewhere
. (I'm sure you've seen the recent debate!)
You all probably know how I try to keep the Forum informed with Kyocera products and information, when it is connected to Contax, and as my "nickname" suggests I am fan of Kyocera products and Contax products alike. It may seem a little odd that I do not ch&ion the 4 or 5MB Kyocera products over the 3MB Contax, but it is Dirk's work that has made this "special edition" possible. There is no gun being pointed at anyone to buy this product!
There will always be a new camera with +++ pixels to the one you just bought. What maybe a "first" here, as Dirk has pointed out, is the direct cooperation between a Kyocera company and this Forum! I'm sure he is hoping, as we all are that this will be the first of more cooperations.
I have been fortunate to enjoy such cooperations when running the Contax Postal Club in the UK. (BTW even though we have an excellent relationship with KY(UK), the CPC are totally independent, in thought and finance!)
If the "special edition" camera is offered at the right price, I might be tempted to buy one even if I was not lucky enough to win one! We have already seen good reports about the camera, if you think it might suit your needs, consider having a "special" one.
Let's support Dirk on this one, in spirit, and if appropriate for you, in cash too!
Cheers, Kyocera Kid.
And whatever you or I feel about the mechanics/optics/electronics of the Kyocera and Contax cameras ..... the one that was chosen/got offered has CONTAX written on it. This is the Contaxinfo Forum, as Dirk has pointed out to me in the "Power of Marketing" section, and elsewhere
You all probably know how I try to keep the Forum informed with Kyocera products and information, when it is connected to Contax, and as my "nickname" suggests I am fan of Kyocera products and Contax products alike. It may seem a little odd that I do not ch&ion the 4 or 5MB Kyocera products over the 3MB Contax, but it is Dirk's work that has made this "special edition" possible. There is no gun being pointed at anyone to buy this product!
There will always be a new camera with +++ pixels to the one you just bought. What maybe a "first" here, as Dirk has pointed out, is the direct cooperation between a Kyocera company and this Forum! I'm sure he is hoping, as we all are that this will be the first of more cooperations.
I have been fortunate to enjoy such cooperations when running the Contax Postal Club in the UK. (BTW even though we have an excellent relationship with KY(UK), the CPC are totally independent, in thought and finance!)
If the "special edition" camera is offered at the right price, I might be tempted to buy one even if I was not lucky enough to win one! We have already seen good reports about the camera, if you think it might suit your needs, consider having a "special" one.
Let's support Dirk on this one, in spirit, and if appropriate for you, in cash too!
Cheers, Kyocera Kid.
lotusm50_is_Jensen
Banned
John-
I think you're trying to rationalize this a bit too much. It is highly unlikely that the 4 mp sensor is "not as good" as the 3 mp sensor.
"Direct cooperation" could just be a way to shift (as I suggested before) unsold obsolete cameras without take too big a hit. Why doesn't the "direct cooperation" take place with the introduction of the CONTAX SL400R? Why toss us stuff that most likely be replaced shortly with a more advanced and more capable model?
Has anyone done a test of Kyocera SL300R with the CONTAX SL300R to compare the output? It would be interesting. Just what DO they vary in the lens to make it a "Zeiss" lens, and not a "Kyocera" lens? and with all the things about the lenses that are the same how much could it really save them to "downgrade" the Kyocera lens, and why would they do it anyway?
If CONTAX does this promotion with the SL400R, I'll buy. If not, I'll just wait. Come on CONTAX, Kyocera. Give us the best you can offer -- not studff you are going to discontinue in a few months.
I think you're trying to rationalize this a bit too much. It is highly unlikely that the 4 mp sensor is "not as good" as the 3 mp sensor.
"Direct cooperation" could just be a way to shift (as I suggested before) unsold obsolete cameras without take too big a hit. Why doesn't the "direct cooperation" take place with the introduction of the CONTAX SL400R? Why toss us stuff that most likely be replaced shortly with a more advanced and more capable model?
Has anyone done a test of Kyocera SL300R with the CONTAX SL300R to compare the output? It would be interesting. Just what DO they vary in the lens to make it a "Zeiss" lens, and not a "Kyocera" lens? and with all the things about the lenses that are the same how much could it really save them to "downgrade" the Kyocera lens, and why would they do it anyway?
If CONTAX does this promotion with the SL400R, I'll buy. If not, I'll just wait. Come on CONTAX, Kyocera. Give us the best you can offer -- not studff you are going to discontinue in a few months.
wilsonlaidlaw
Well-Known Member
Sticking to Dirk's instructions not to post anything other than logos on the logo thread, now posting on this thread. I too was a little concerned that the SL300R, I had just bought, used the 3mp and not the new 4mp chip. then I remembered how I disliked the output from my 5mp chip Finecam S5 to the extent that I have now passed it on to another family member. As is well known, size or in this case megapixel count is not everything. This is a point and shoot camera and the results print out OK up to A4 size. The picture feel is right and the noise is low. You may well find that the 4mp chip has much more noise and ultimately may not be as satisfactory. If I want a bigger print than this, I will use my G2 or RX but I cannot remember the last time I printed any larger. Wilson
dirk
CI-Founder
Many different points have been raised:
1. AF of the Kyocera SL300R. It is basically exactly how it is described in the manual. If there are objects without enough light i.e. black table or not enough contrast or structure, the AF has problems. Sometimes it helps to turn slightly the camera and the AF snaps the point again. This is not a DSLR. Do not expect a 700USD AF system in a 400 USD camera. I do not think that other cameras in this price tag are better. Once you know how the AF works best, it is easier in these extreme situations. I have not yet had a Contax SL300R, so I can not comment on any differences.
2. Every digital camera is outdated after beeing on the market for more than 1 week. There will be always another model with - on the first view - better specs. But who cares if the former model fulfills your needs? Do you buy a computer every 2 months just because there is a new model out with a higher speed? If this is your major concern, then I can strongly advise not to buy any digital camera. You will always regret it as soon as a new model comes out.
I do not think that Kyocera will come up with a Contax SL400R and then Contax SL500R etc. I can try to get more information, but do not hope too much for it. We even have not seen a Contax TVSDII within the last 18 months. But this is only my personal opinion.
3. Experience showed, higher MP on the chip does not mean mandatory that the image quality is better. I do not say that the image quaility is better of a 3MP chip vs. 4MP on the same size. I just doubt that you will see any difference in normal use with this camera. IMO the chip is too small to see differences of 1MP. This is a P&S and shall be used as an P&S - nothing else. But the big advantage is, that it is so tiny that you really have it always with you. This is the main selling argument for me.
4. The Contax SL300R is reality. It is brand new on the market, it is available and it will come as a black model and as a limited edition. Everything else is just theory and hope.
But as someone else mentioned. Nobody is forced to buy one. There are only 300 minus one for the logo-competition winner available. It will be handled on a first come, first serve basis as soon as we have the purchase link online.
1. AF of the Kyocera SL300R. It is basically exactly how it is described in the manual. If there are objects without enough light i.e. black table or not enough contrast or structure, the AF has problems. Sometimes it helps to turn slightly the camera and the AF snaps the point again. This is not a DSLR. Do not expect a 700USD AF system in a 400 USD camera. I do not think that other cameras in this price tag are better. Once you know how the AF works best, it is easier in these extreme situations. I have not yet had a Contax SL300R, so I can not comment on any differences.
2. Every digital camera is outdated after beeing on the market for more than 1 week. There will be always another model with - on the first view - better specs. But who cares if the former model fulfills your needs? Do you buy a computer every 2 months just because there is a new model out with a higher speed? If this is your major concern, then I can strongly advise not to buy any digital camera. You will always regret it as soon as a new model comes out.
I do not think that Kyocera will come up with a Contax SL400R and then Contax SL500R etc. I can try to get more information, but do not hope too much for it. We even have not seen a Contax TVSDII within the last 18 months. But this is only my personal opinion.
3. Experience showed, higher MP on the chip does not mean mandatory that the image quality is better. I do not say that the image quaility is better of a 3MP chip vs. 4MP on the same size. I just doubt that you will see any difference in normal use with this camera. IMO the chip is too small to see differences of 1MP. This is a P&S and shall be used as an P&S - nothing else. But the big advantage is, that it is so tiny that you really have it always with you. This is the main selling argument for me.
4. The Contax SL300R is reality. It is brand new on the market, it is available and it will come as a black model and as a limited edition. Everything else is just theory and hope.
But as someone else mentioned. Nobody is forced to buy one. There are only 300 minus one for the logo-competition winner available. It will be handled on a first come, first serve basis as soon as we have the purchase link online.
