Provocative question RX or RXII or RTSIII

[mikel]

Just have a provocative type of question. Suppose you have $900. You want to buy either used RTS III or new RXII or used RX. Reliability, handling, TTL flash control, top shutter speed are all important in more or less equal proportion. I never owned RTS III and "tested" RX in store long time ago, so I wonder what are thoughts on the two cameras? RTS III has real mirror-lockup, 1/8000sec top shutter speed, 1/125sec and 1/250sec (thanks Rico) flash speed, seems to be built well (and thus will handle well), has vertical release shutter button and has a good reputation for reliability (however, from many threads in this forum it looks like practically any breakage will run into few hundred or a round thousand dollar in repair costs). Also, it's not clear to me how good is TTL flash control? (or it actually works via pre-flash TTL control only?) The flash sync shoe has two contacts, instead of 5 on Aria and RX, so I'm not sure what functionality is "lost" as compared to more modern bodies?

Additionally, from the comments of other users, it sounds like RXII is using the same shutter as Aria and it also has new metering sensor. Thus it pretty much guarantees availability of replacement parts for a long time.

Furthermore, viewfinder magnification in RX/RXII is 0.8x, while in RTS III it is 0.74 I believe. In general, I prefer higher magnification usually.

Any input will be appreciated, since I'm struggling to make up my mind (although I'm not even sure that I *have* the $900 to spend)

Mike.

 

[dirk]

What do you want to use it for?

- What kind of shootings
- for travelling or not
- do you use flash often
- what is your existing equipment (lenses and cameras)
- Will you use it in addition to it or as a replacement

 

[mikel]

Dirk,

My primary Contax SLR at the moment is Aria. It's my go-anywhere camera and I carry it with P50 or D28 or S85, depending on the day or purpose. I take a lot of interest in street photography or "chance" photography (you just walk down the street and see something interesting - you take your camera and take a picture). P50 is more or less a permanent resident on Aria though

With these three lenses, Aria works as a very well-balanced combination. For travel it's practically perfect.

However, when it comes down to flash photography, although I do prefer to have mixed ambient light/flash in my pictures (and thus 1/125sec flash sync on Aria is great), sometimes I do have a need for higher speed. 1/200sec or 1/250sec is what's required. It happens only sometimes, but then, the whole point is - it's a difference between taking a shot the way I want it, or not.
However, considering that RTS III doesn't transmit f/stop info to flash, I understand that it means that you always have to set it on the flash manually, which isn't a good thing too.

Another issue is that with Metz 54 MZ-3 and bounce adapter mounted, Aria becomes "top-heavy" and doesn't balance too well.

I'm planning on adding three more lenses to my arsenal within next 6 months as well as Mutar - Planar 85mm f/1.4, Sonnar 135mm f/2.8 and Sonnar 180mm f/2.8. Later on, if I have money left - Distagon 21mm f/2.8. (I actually planned to get P85 now, but then some other unexpected expenses came up, so I have to postpone it). And maybe, just maybe, some time later I wil get rich enough to get one of the tele APO lenses. But I think I would have to win a lottery for that

So, with the Sonnar 180mm f/2.8 Aria would be somewhat cumbersome to use (handheld that is. On tripod there will be little difference). Bigger and heavier/sturdier body would be better.

There is another issue. Although I don't spend as much time doing landscape/architecture/nature photography as I would like, when it does happen I surely miss mirror-lockup or at least 2sec-timer with mirror-lockup. RTS III has a true mirror-lockup, while situation with RXII is unclear.

So, basically I need some "loaded" camera, that would complement my Aria in any situation where Aria won't do. On the other hand, overall weight is also of concern. After all, RTSIII with batteries weighs one pound more than RX or RXII.

And of course, the more important concern is reliability. I definitely don't have money to buy new RTS III. Which means - I will have to get used one. Considering that these cameras are pretty expensive and are relatively old, it's hard to predict how much any repair will cost and whether such repairs could be performed 5 years from now.

With RX or RXII it's easier, they're far more common than RTS III and in case with RXII they seem to be sharing some components with Aria, which would mean that repairs will be cheaper and most likely it will be possible even 10 years from now.

That's why I'm struggling to make up my mind

Mike.

 

[dirk]

... this will be difficult. I think it all depends on the weighting you give personally to certain features and how often you will do something else than street photoghraphy:

1. RX is smaller, significant lighter and less noisy than the RTS III

2. RX II is louder than RX. I would always prefer the RX.

3. RX II has (as far as I know) no MLU via selftimer. Even if it has, it does not help you on windy days if there is just for one second no wind.

4. The heavier the lenses, the better the RTS III. Viewfinder for composing (if you have the time) is just a pleasure. The display of the RTS III is fading over the time. So you have to calculate a repair every 3-5 years for about 170-200 Euro. After that you will be able a lot better to see the shutter times etc. in the viewfinder. Although it is never as easy as on the RX, since the RTS III viewfinder is just too bright at sunny days for the colour in the display. Look at the manual/ broschure section on this site.

5. If you do not want to replace the Aria, it comes down to the criteria for which situation you would grab something else than the Aria and how often this will happen.

I do not think that you can beat the Aria for street photography and travelling. The shutter of the RX is less noisy, but the camera is more obvious and attracts more attention to you. You do not want to use big and heavy lenses anyway in this situation. Same counts for the RTS III. Flash usage attracts also too much attention in that circumstances.

So you would most probably use a "non-Aria" camera for all other stuff (landcsape, studio, special purposes). The question is how often do you do this? In 20% of your photo-time or more?

A true MLU is perfect for landscape. A large (100%) viewfinder also. So the RTS III would be my favourite one. If you do need higher flash speed than 125, the RTS III is your choice. As an addition to the Aria, the RTS III is also more different than the RX, which is what you should look for. Otherwise it will stay in the closet and you will only use the Aria.

If you would like to replace the Aria, I would recommend the RX, since it is more the mixture between the RTS III and the Aria.

But make sure that you take all cameras in your hands for 10 minutes and play with them before you buy, The stomach feelings always overrule the logic

So if you do not feel right with the RTS III, do not buy it.

Read all the treads about the RTS III in this forum. This wil give you tremendous information in between the lines for your decision.

Just my 2 cents

 

[rico1]

Mike,

From brief handling, the RX strikes me as a fine camera: most quiet RTS shutter, metal build, intermediate weight, etc. As you're aware, however, the RTS III has more capability across the board.

The Aria goes nose-heavy with the P100, let alone the S180 or the zooms. The RTS III is comfortable with heavy lenses and big flash gear up top.

Like you, I also like mixed lighting. Getting the balance between ambient and flash is aided by the spot flashmeter of the RTS III. If you use TTL flash, no need to set film speed and lens aperture on the flash head: merely ensure adequate flash coverage for your lens.

Being a current product, parts for RTS III repair will be available for the next decade (laws dictate). Besides the fading VF problem, the camera gets a good grade for reliability. $1000 will get you a body of grade Excellent from KEH, along with return privilege and a short warranty. Even with due diligence, Ebay is a crap shoot for buyers.

 

[gor]

How about a second hand Contax ST? It is a little smaller than RX but at = least just as rugged. Shortest shutter speed is 1/6000 sec, flash sync = at 1/200 sec. I think the ST is one of the best cameras Contax ever = produced, and it is - at least concerning ist looks - very similar to = the Aria. Best regards Georg

 

[afranklin]

Hi Dirk,

> If you do need higher flash > speed than 125, the RTS III is your choice.

I thought the RTS-III could sync at 250? I have one, but I never used a flash with it...

Regards,

Austin

 

[dirk]

... I do not undertand the question exactly because I think we are saying the same. I did not use flash with my RTS III neither. But you have definitely the option of flash sync of 1/250 or slower via direct hotshoe and according to the specs also 1/125 and 1/250 in manual mode.

Or was it a typo and you meant the RX II ?

 

[afranklin]

Hi Dirk,

> .. I do not undertand the question exactly because I think we are > saying the same.

Sorry, I read it wrong. You said "If you DO need higher flash speed than 125, the RTS III is your choice.", and I read that as "don't".

Regards,

Austin

 

[mikel]

Dirk,

You say RX II is louder than RX. You mean as "loud" as Aria? Because if so, I'm totally okay with that.

Also, you mentioned that RTS III display is fading over time. I'm confused about something. If it's a known problem, why Kyocera never came up with a slightly revised display that would last longer? Also, what contributes to the fading? Is it going to fade even if I just put it on the shelf and let it sit there for 3 years? Or it's related to sunlight?

And I think that I use Aria 70% of the time. Which means that I will need that other body (whatever it will be) for the remaining 30% of situations.

And there is no way I'm going to replace Aria.


Rico,

So you also mention this VF display fading problem. I guess I need to go through some older threads to find more info about it.

Georg,

Actually, I have never even seen ST, that's why it would be a difficult choice. I will have to buy it first and "test drive" only later. Hardly a good idea. Also, since it's small, I'm afraid it also won't cut it with heavier lens and heavy flash on top.



Mike.