Old Summicron 90mm SEOOM

J

jgea

I have acquired a very nice 90mm Summicron ca. 1960 s/n 1742368.. When I opened the box, I was surprised to see It is on Visoflex mount.
I have a Visoflex, but I would have liked to use it without it. I have the following two questions:

First: Is there a ring that will allow to mount it directly on the M3? (the drawing on the side of the box suggests there is)

Second question: I tried to mount it on my Leicaflex SL via adapter 14167. This adapter takes the OUBIO, and Viso lenses like the Telyt 280/4.8. However, this lens will not turn into the adapter, it cannot be mounted.

Any advice?

Thanks in advance

Juan
 

jlow

Active Member
Dear Juan

I have the same lens in its original M mount which when dismantled is then coupled to the short focusing mount (ZOOEP)

With this combination - you use the 14167 to mount on your R or Leicaflex.

So the lens is a "dual" in that it can be used either as a M or R

Borrowing the description from Justin Scott - the ZOOEP is a work of art.

But it is quite difficult to come by.

Joseph Low / Singapore
 
J

jgea

Dear Dr. Low,

Thank you very much-- this at least gives me hope I will be able to use it at some point in the future. I can be patient. It also gives me a way of looking for the piece I need!

This particular lens looks almost unused. Really beautiful after more than 40 years.

Juan
 

jlow

Active Member
Dear Juan

Firstly I am not a doctor - but a simple individual - who happens to enjoy cameras and photography. The good doctor and Leicaphile known in these threads is Dr Joseph Yao of HK.

Yes old Leica lenses display a distinct patina besides being products of old world quality manufacturing practices - thus my own love of chrome lenses of that era.

Good luck with your search for the ZOOEP

Best regards

Joseph Low / Singapore
 
J

jgea

Dear Joseph,
Please accept my apologies, and allow me to ask you two more questions.

1. How does one separate the optical group from the mount? I tried to unscrew, but it does not seem towork (Maybe I am not applying enough strength??)

2. I have found a picture of the ZOOEP. Is this it? This seems to be the piece already on the lens! It has a bayonet mount and fits perfectly on a Visoflex II. If this is the case, I should try to find the "original M mount" you mentioned. (And, of course, I don't understand why it does not mount onto the 14167...)

Thanks,

Juan
 

jlow

Active Member
Dear Juan

Yes this is a ZOOEP and if it is already on your lens - then you are home.

Best regards

Joseph Low
 
J

jgea

Dear Joseph,
I should be home... except that I want to mount it on the M3 (and it won't ) or the 14167 (and it doesn't--I don't know why!).
I have uploaded mor pictures of the lens at
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Thanks for your input,

Juan
 
J

jgea

Dear Joseph,
Thanks again. I think I got it: I just donned latex gloves and with them on I was able to disassemble the optical group and confirm the lower part of the lens is, indeed, a ZOOEP.
Still with the gloves on, I just tried harder and got the thing mounted on the 14167 on the Leicaflex. Now it mounts and unmounts just fine.
Thank you so much for your guidance-- your answers gave me the confidence I needed to apply more strength.
Now all I need is the "longer focusing ring" to mount it on the M3. Does anyone know which one would that be? The 16462 perhaps?
Thanks

Juan
 
E

erikvanstraten

Hello Juan,

When you are looking for a long mount for your 90mm Summicron (which is extremely difficult) then the small number engraved on it under the word CANADA on the distance scale ring should match the number engraved on your ZOOEP on the same spot. Otherwise focusing will be incorrect. A competent repairman however can adapt the long mount to your individual lens, but really I think that you will not find a long mount at all. It's much easier to find a ZOOEP loose to complete a long mount 90mm Summicron than the reverse.

But it is a fine lens, only when making close ups at full aperture the performance is not so good, on longer distances however it is. Stopping down a little improves the performance a lot.

regards,

Erik
 
E

erikvanstraten

Hello Juan,

When you are looking for a long mount for your 90mm Summicron (which is extremely difficult) then the small number engraved on it under the word CANADA on the distance scale ring should match the number engraved on your ZOOEP on the same spot. Otherwise focusing will be incorrect. A competent repairman however can adapt the long mount to your individual lens, but really I think that you will not find a long mount at all. It's much easier to find a ZOOEP loose to complete a long mount 90mm Summicron than the reverse.

But it is a fine lens, only when making close ups at full aperture the performance is not so good, on longer distances however it is. Stopping down a little improves the performance a lot.

regards,

Erik
 
H

hektor

Dear Juan,

To add to the comprehensive advice of Joseph and Erik, this lens on an M3 feels "nose heavy". It balances better on the SL. If I were looking for an f/2 90mm lens for an M camera, the later aluminium mount/anodised black fits the M series well.

Incidentally your Summicron has the very rare pre-set diaphragm. With the ZOOEP you have an exclusive piece of equipment.

Have fun.

Justin
 
J

jgea

Dear Justin,
Thank you very much for your input. Through John Collier from the Leica Users Group I have learned this particular combination was called OESBO.
Yes, it has a preset diaphragm, and one can tell it would be front-heavy on the M3. I will use it on the Leicaflex, and maybe it will be the excuse I need to use the Viso...
Do you know if there is any rhyme or reason to the Leica letter codes (OESBO, ZOOEP, and so on)? They sound so odd!
As usual, thanks to everybody. Nice forum.

Jua
 

colin

Well-Known Member
Justin, I am not aware of Leica M lenses ever having aluminium mounts, or any of their mounts being anodised black. I believe M cameras have chrome plated brass mounts and the lens mounts are ss
Colin
 

colin

Well-Known Member
Juan, Up until recent years Leitz always gave their Leica accessories code names.This was to help in ordering. Nowadays this is replaced by a catalogue number,but some items became so well known by their code word,that the latter was more characteristic than the description of the accessory itself. Ex&les would include "Nooky" (Hesum) A close focussing device, "Ploot", a reflex mirror device preceding the "Visoflex" and "Vidoom" finders There are literally hundreds of others!
Colin
 

patrickngai

Active Member
Juan,

Do you mind to tell the price of this rare item?

Hopefully you can find a scrap 90/f2 lens at same type (even harder to be smae chrome) with good focusing barrel, then it may be used on M3 coupled. If you don't mind you spend some more to buy a bad condition 90/f2 same type in order to use this lens head. I am not sure the pre-set diaphragm design may affect focusing. Wait for expertise to answer the question.

Patrick
 
J

jgea

Patrick,

So far I have tried to stay away of really expensive Leica items, and when I bought this I did not know if it was rare or not. The lens was US $357. As I have said before, to decide if the price is reasonable I check the listings of KEH (USA), collectcamera.com (Netherlands) and recent eBay sales.

The pre-set diaphragm makes it very convenient to use on the Viso or the Leicaflex, because you can focus at full aperture and then easily close the diaphragm to the working aperture just before shooting (or, in the case of the SL, before metering).

Finding the long focusing mount may be really difficult and involved (it would need rangefinder calibration and so on, so it would end up being _very_expensive_). As Justin suggests, this lens is probably better used on the SL. I will keep an eye open for a "Parts/Repair" kind of Summicron 90, though.

Colin,

I rather like the names. I wondered if they are random letters or there is a pattern, if each letter stands for something (i.e., if someone can guess that SEOOM is a (S)ummicron for the (M) (and E, O and O also mean something). I would imagine there has to be a "code".



Juan
 
E

erikvanstraten

Juan,

You should not check collectcamera.com for reasonable prices for he is too expensive. I know him personally and it's a trustworthy dealer but he has problems selling his stock because his prices are not realistic.Better look at the auction results of Tamarkin in New York or look frequently on Ebay.

regards,

Erik
 
J

jgea

Erik,

You are absolutely right. I forgot to add I subtract 40-50% from his prices to reach my level of "reasonableness", although he has had bargains sometimes. He has always been very responsive, and I bought a very nice and inexpensive M3 Summaron from him last year, when the Euro was weaker. As an ex&le of his responsiveness, this is what he replied this morning when I asked him about the "long mount" for this lens:

"I don't think that you will find the regular tube easily; it was not an accessory but a part of the Summicron 90. I am afraid you will have to buy the whole lens to obtain the focusing tube. Best regards,"


Regards,

Juan
 
H

hektor

The alphabetical code was used before 1960 for use on telex machines.

Computers and improved means of communication changed that.

Juan,

Forget about a Visoflex unless tripod mounted, which is not why one has an f/2 lens. I use a 1:4/135 Elmar on a Visoflex I and tripod, but that is because it will focus from 1:1 to infinity.

Your combination on a Leicaflex is perfect. I wish I had your preset lens.

Justin
 
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