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MP vs M6

Craig

I can hardly get my M6 to flare - at what angle/direction should the light come to have this effect? By the way as this is about the MP, I spended ten minutes with it in the shop yesterday and was not happy about the feel of the paint and the "leather" so i guess that I am looking for a second M6 instead - means a lot to me that the camera feels right when holding it!
Ruben
 
> >Don't know exact S/N off hand but it was definitely below 2850 XXX. I >had an M7 with S/N above this "magic number" but it was fitted with >pre MP type RF arrangement. Can get exact #s for both cameras if you >need. ----

Yes, I'm beginning to think that the 285xxx is a myth promulgated by Leica.

Karen
 
Karen

Yes, I just checked the S/N for the M7 used in my little test M7 2854 XXX! not below the magic number as I said before. Which brings to mind, the following quote from the good Dr Erwin Puts

"...and all M7 models currently in production have that [MP] unit too. When the transition occured CANNOT}} be related to the serial number...

regards craig
 
Ruben

I doubt that you have never experienced some degree of RF flare with your M6. You just may not have been overtly aware of it. You may have noticed that the finder frames and RF patch have become a little brighter on occasions. Point it in the right direction under the right lighting conditions and flare will occur.

As stated before on this forum the RF flare issue and its associated problems can be wildly overstated. In practice flare only becomes a problem when the overall brightness of the RF patch increases to a point where its contrast drops or is blown out and is ten unusable. This only occurs under certain relatively extreme lighting conditions. In normal shooting even with strong oblique light the RF patch may begin to flare-out but you can still focus easily enough, therefore, no problem. In practice you can turn the camera a little to avoid RF flare and focus. A similar situation as when shooting into the sun with an SLR and getting flare patches or ghosting. You just turn the camera away till you get a clean image.

Personally, I like the effects produced by raking sidelight so the rangefinder camera is often positioned at an oblique angle to the sun low in the sky. In situations like this flare can be a nuisance and interrupt your working flow. RF flare has also been a problem for me when shooting live theatre and concerts. Lots of strong directional lighting in those situations.

Hope this helps, Craig
 
> Craig: a most useful posting! I think it is the "unscientific" genuine users' comments that really make a difference, and underscore the usefulness of Internet forums (OK, fora, for all those who did Latin).

Interesting, but perhaps not surprising, that the MP scores so highly. Some people have dismissed this camera as a "pastiche" of the M3, yet it seems there genuinely is a difference compared with other models.

My own experience was that the M6 finder did flare markedly in comparison with the M3. My wife found this also (and also with my earlier OM cameras' split rangefinders). Viewfinder flare does make a difference, is a significant issue, and is worthy of the attention of camera manufacturers.

Perhaps our intense sunlight makes a difference here in NZ -- and, for me, the fact I wear glasses. I did manage to make the M3 finder flare, once, at an indoor Weber Bros circus under lights.

M7 v MP and earlier Ms poses an interesting question. Does the speed of response of the M7 outweigh the simplicity, feel, and lack of finder flare of an M3?
 
I firmly believe that the speed of response particularly with M cameras comes down to technique. I’m an average photographer nothing that special here, but if I’m having a sharp day (once in 6 months or more) I can operate my M3 more quickly than an auto every thing monster camera, and get good results. The M6 - M7 encourage us to use the TTL metering system that comes with the camera. This facility is now considered, not just a convenience, rather an absolute necessity for any camera. But to use TTL can actually draws your attention away from the subject and slow you down. While inboard camera functions are a great advantage they can also distract from the act of image making.

To put image making into some perspective, with all the advantages of modern camera technology are any of our efforts equal to or better than those of workers like Alfred Eisenstäd or Cartier Bresson. After all, all they had was a simple Leica sans accoutrements. Well Bresson had some damn good printers, which helps.

Now that I’ve had a chance to play with one, IMHO the MP is anything but an M6 mutant cum M3 living fossil. Get over the retro cosmetics and the MP feels and handles quite differently to the M3 or M6 for that matter. This said the camera has that Leica slick smooth feel in operation that the pre M4.2 models are famous for. However, the MP is a very different Leica in its own right and not just a clone of days past. If you’re into down to basics 35mm photography the MP is close to the perfect modern tool, until Solms rerelease the M3, its the best we have. BTW the shutter is also super quiet.

Sorry for the rant, Craig
 
David's comment,

"M7 v MP and earlier Ms poses an interesting question. Does the speed
of response of the M7 outweigh the simplicity, feel, and lack of
finder flare of an M3?".

This statement does not apply to a later M7,
because you can gain every advantage.

Craig's comment regarding the M3 being "more quickly", I can challenge in that all you need to do with the M7, is focus and shoot (leave the exposure to AUTO setting when in a rush).

William
 
"I can operate my M3 more quickly than an auto every thing monster camera."

With all due respect but there is no way that you can operate your M3 faster or as fast as my F100. Really no debate there.=20

Question is if you can operate it fast enough for your purposes?=20

This very likely is true. I don't need all the speed that the F100 gives me nor the auto TTL metering. I find I'm just as good if not better using my incident meter but not as fast. Matrix or TTL metering works fine for 95% of the shots and is faster. Adjusting may take more time but is still faster then setting a shutter/aperture on a M3.

Not faster, but fast enough.
 
Bas

Good points on what is fast enough. And it does all depends on the type of shot you are trying to get.

However, my point related more to that sometimes it's good to think outside the TTL box. It’s not macho bravado, I’m too old for that. Quite simply, it’s all about pevisualisation, using your depth of field scales and having made intelligent choices over exposure from an initial pre reading with a hand held meter. With focus set and exposure taken care of, the M3 is set up to go. When an image making opportunity arises, just frame and trip the shutter. My 12 milliseconds shutter delay will beat your 100plus any day.

There’s no magic or great skill involved just being prepared, combined with good powers of observation, which most photographers have in good measure. It’s a very old and tested method of working. And it does work very effectively, assuming you have got your wits about you can get top results. That's the hard bit maintaining your overall concentration and being constantly aware of your environment. An SLR gives you tunnel vision that removes you somewhat from your surroundings. TTL causes you to concentrate on the camera rather than evolving image making potentials happening around you.

IMO, the M3 and MP are great cameras for this bare bones way of working. Although you can work this way with any small or MF camera.

Regards Craig
 
The flare is a severe issue on some M7s. One of my friend's unit (about 285xxxx) flares severely. If you try to take a portrait indoors where there is any light behind the subject (window, hair light), the rangefinder becomes quite useless.

He's sent it back to NJ for repair, but we'll see if it gets corrected. I was curious because he thought the 285xxx units were flare free.

Karen Nakamura
 
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