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Real but square compare G2 vs Leica Mx

U

urgenta

Hi all
I read the postings about the UK-Compare-List. I think both, the comparelist and the comments were not fair. Since I own both, a G2 and a Leica MP, I made my own thougts. I like both systems very much.

Kind regards
Hans Villars, Switzerland

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Fair compare G2 vs. Leica Mx
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A

afranklin

Well-Known Member
I have both as well, and though they are the "same" in some regards, and they are obviously quite different.

The biggest features of the Leica M6 I like are superb and FAST lenses, exceptional low light ability/focusing, and the true rangefinder finder...meaning the ability to see around what the image is in the finder.

The biggest features of the G series for me are autofocus (when I don't want to deal with manual focusing) and the lenses are superb and have very good close focus. I love using either, and probably gravitate to the G these days first, for it's ease of use.

I really don't see how they are competing cameras, as they are so divergent...it's like pencil and paper vs PDA...I see them each as having their own exceptional abilities.

Regards,

Austin
 
B

bobbl46

Well-Known Member
It is interesting to see the items Kyocera decided to put in the UK website comparison (BTW, a UK Contax guy told me some time ago that these charts originate in the USA (?) ).

Also .... to see which features Hans and Austin prefer.

As an arm-chair admirer, and potential buyer of the G2, this is very interesting and would like to hear more.

Slightly off topic ... This isn't the first time Kyocera have sparked off a debate with a comparison chart. They had a go when the 645AF came out too! This time they picked on 4 other cameras! I think I still have it somewhere if anyone wants a scan.

I suppose anyone can make anything look good with a very carefully chosen list!



Even in this small image, I bet you can see which column the Contax 645 is under


Cheers, Kyocera Kid.
 
A

auduni

Even though I find that this is a bit like comparing apples to oranges, I would still like to comment on your effort to to fairly compare G2 to M-cameras. I don't think your fair to the M7 regarding flash capabilities. It has both high speed, second curtain and auto sync flash in combination with Metz 54MZ-3. In addition I believe you have flash bracketing. The M7 also have automatic exposure control. Regarding electronic shutter release, which you consider nice to have/not necessary, I assume that this is not as fast as the mechanical shutter release of M-cameras (10 milliseconds).


Best regards,
Audun I. (happy owner of both Zeiss and Leica optics)
 
S

saspencr

Well-Known Member
I am guessing that it must be extremely difficult to put an optical focus confirmation in a camera like the G2 with a zoom finder and autofocus as this seems like the most needed piece that it is missing. If I could KNOW what the focus locked on with certainty ...
 
U

urgenta

Gilbert:
It's a MS-Word Dokument.

Scott:
I think an optical focus confirmation like in the Nikon F4 (Green LED) would help.

All:
I think some of the features of the G2 are musts for this kind of camera, but would be useless for systems like the Leica M and Bessa. Sure I would appreciate for the MP a shutter like in the Nikon F2 (Mechanical, Titanium). I can live with the weaknesses of both systems as they have also their strengths :)

Nice weekend and regards
Hans Villars
 
R

rickd

I have to confess, Hans, that I find the items selected for comparison on your list a bit odd, but I've not seen the Contax UK list, so perhaps you're specifically addressing item missing from that one?

Ex&le: making second-curtain synch and auto exposure both "nice-to-haves" is to seriously understate the value of auto exposure. I can't imagine any 35mm camera made since roughly 1975 not having the feature, including the M. Another: Noting the cost of G batteries as "expensive!" seems absurd considering the brutal cost of an M-Leica itself.

In short, I think your list nibbles around the edges but doesn't begin to get to the heart of what makes a G a G and an M an M. I admire Ms for thei r build quality and their vast lens selection. That said, I bought a G, not least because I could afford a system as compared to a body and a lens, but also because of the many, many more things a G will do than any M yet made.

I'd detail my list but frankly, the topic has been beaten to death here many, many times before.

However, had I known then how badly Kyocera would be stumbling today, I may have chosen to not get into either system.

Best regards,

Rick
 
G

gjames52

Well-Known Member
G2 focus confirmation>

The G2 does provide focus confirmation in single auto and manual modes and unlike Nikon's dot, when the indicator stops flashing, it also provides a distance reading. In auto mode the distance reading is on the scale in the viewfinder. In manual mode it is on the viewfinder when you depress the focus lock button. (pg104) The distance is also shown on the LCD.

Are their any other auotfocus cameras that provide distance readings, absent of any distance scales on the lens?

Best Regards:

Gilbert
 
G

garth

G Batteries -

For USA photographers, the whole argument about "costly batteries" is a red herring, pure, plain and simple. Size CR123 lithiums are readily available for $1.00-1.25 each (in bulk packed 20's) and the shorter CR2's (used in the G cameras) can be had for $1.75 each in 2-packs. With a 10 year shelf life, there's no reason to whine about "costly batteries". Spend $20 and make it a non-issue.

Plug Toshiba CR2 or Sanyo CR123 into the site search engine at
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and spend a few bucks. Toshiba AA size alkalines are 20-25 cents each, as well. I've had good results with both brands and no, I don't work for the seller or either manufacturer.

My apologies if I've broken any rules about posting product source websites on this forum, but this whole costly battery argument has become more than I can stand. It makes as much sense as defending the need for hand-crank start automobiles. :>)
 
A

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Dave,

It's a plain fact, the batteries aren't that easy to find anywhere, for either camera. Fact is, one works without them and one can't work without them. I, personally, don't have a problem with this, so don't think I'm "whining", just stating that for *some* people, this may very well be a factor.

Austin
 
N

neilb

Active Member
I think the battery argument is pretty silly. It amounts to saying that a manual focus camera is better than an autofocus one because the manual focus camera can shoot with no batteries. It misses the point entirely.. autofocus is extremely useful, as is the ability to auto bracket, contiouous shooting, etc., which all require batteries. The value of these features far outweighs the value of being able to shoot without batteries. Every year, millions of cameras are sold that can't shoot without batteries. How can that be, if it is such a disadvantage?

If you want features that depend on batteries, carry spare batteries. What's the problem?
 
A

afranklin

Well-Known Member
"If you want features that depend on batteries, carry spare batteries. What's the problem?"

Of course one should carry spare batteries in most circumstances, but sometimes one set isn't enough, and it's unrealistic to carry 20 sets of batteries. The point is, these are rather esoteric batteries, and getting them in the middle of some Greek island may prove to be a chore. It's just a fact of life, it happens with cameras that are battery dependant. You can demand that people carry spares all you want, but the fact is, not everyone does (or can possibly carry enough depending on their circumstances), even if they have the best intentions of doing so. Whether this is an issue for YOU, has no bearing on whether this MAY be a factor for others, and these concerns are warranted, not silly.

Austin
 
P

picturetaker

It is very poor marketing comparing such 2 complete different system to each other. What wants Contax to tell with this advertisment ?
Is it, Contax customer must be a mob of fools or are Leica user so stupid buying low tech equipment. Is that marketing department from Contax realy not knowing what they are talking about.

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G

garth

As a point of reference, I just placed 4 sets of CR2 batteries in an empty cigarette box. Plenty of room to close the lid, with about 30% of the interior volume available for padding to keep them from banging around. The pack weighs maybe 6 ounces. Add the fresh set we've thoughtfully put in the camera before the trip and we will trot off to the Greek Isles with 5 sets...enough to shoot 400 ROLLS of 24 exposure film, according to the Contax G2 owner's manual.

But....you are right, Austin. The battery challenged among us will simply have to avoid battery-dependent cameras. Tell me though, what do these non-planners do with regard to their specialized film needs? Are professional grade films readily available in the middle of that Greek island? I'd think that a bigger problem than batteries.
 
B

bobbl46

Well-Known Member
Austin has a very good point ..... I wish my AX and my Finecam S3L ran on 24/7 "gerr'em anywhere" AA's, like my trusty, rusty 137MA.

S*d those esoteric Di-lithium crystal-beam-me-up Scotty-metal-something-or-other-hi'n'dry(?) batteries ..... my FX-3 Super 2000 will work on thumb power! But don't ask me to give up my AX.

And as I've said (and done!) many times before .... drop a few boxes of slides on the floor and as you weep while picking them up ... it's darn hard to tell the difference of which ones were taken on the AX or the FX


And I agree with Dave (Gee! Sound's like I sit on the fence a lot!) The equipment should not get in the way of the photograph .... and it's up to the picturetaker (oops!) to see that it doesn't. Hey! I suppose that's why I keep the FX-3 in the bag! Preparation for emergencies and I didn't even know it!

Back to the devilish Contax comparison table ..... Picturetaker's Mama should have told him that marketing men have only one message to tell ..... it's "BUY MY PRODUCT" .... no matter which company they work for. They assume that a certain proportion of their readers are "a mob of fools" (or something similar ... insert your own phrase).

Some might use tables of figures, some free gifts, or two for the price of one, some sexy ladies (or men?) and some, over-inflated prices to fool the innocent into thinking that their product is better than others only because it's dearer. It matters not the method ....only that you, the customer, recognise which one it is, ignore it, and just look at the product and your own needs.

Picturetaker .... I wouldn't get too excited about these things .... that way will only lead to madness ...... and I should know!

cHeeRs kY-oH-Sara Kyyd dd
 
C

colin

Well-Known Member
This comparing one product to another maker's similar product has been going on for years. Just look in your daily newspaper under the new car ads. I don't care that Toyota "A" has more horsepower than Honda's "B" I don't drive a Lexus because it compares better than a Saturn; I drive it because I like it. I have never in 45 years of photography bought a camera by comparison of features. My purchases have been based on "quality"; particularly of the precision engineering of bodies and lenses
 
P

picturetaker

Contax does not tell the truth in this comparison, it has to be removed from this site. Also there are rangefinder cameras much cheaper than Leica e.g. Voigtländer,Hasselblad,Konika. all with advantages and disadvantages versus the G2 and G Lenses.
Leicas most advantage is the Customer service, e.g.for entusiasts 30Year parts for their expensive hand made MP.
And there are Digital Cameras from Epson available for Leica M mount this year and Leica does work on it. Also much more lenses are available.
And you do get any lens in Black or Chrome without beging by a dealer for a spezial order.

Anything has the price on it, its monetary or in some other things e.g. desadvantages.
 
G

garth

For those unaware of a not well-advertised Contax accessory (and my final whimper on the subject of batteries - promise!): Contax P-8 Power Pack($60) and the GP-1 Adapter($50), both from B&H.
This combination, marketed as a cold weather power pack, permits using commonly available AA size batteries (4) to power a G-series Contax. The power pack connects to the adapter (inserted in the camera's battery compartment) via a thin 5' cable. Now all you have to do is remember to velcro the pack to the camera body. :>)
 
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