Real time

neilb

Active Member
Hi,

My first Contax was my G2, which I'm very happy with. I have the 90 and the 35 lenses. I'm now thinking I want another Contax, and am drawn to the Aria. I'd like to buy one soon, and probably the 50/1.4 lens.

On Kyocera website, I see this stuff about real time shutter release that happens at the speed of light, blah blah blah. Is this an actual feature, something that Contax has that others don't? Or is it just marketing BS?

This wont affect my decision @ the Aria... I'm just curious.

thanks,

Neil
 

blumesan

Well-Known Member
Neil
I have recently acquired an Aria, and am very happy with it. As for shutter release at "the speed of light", you can take that with a large grain of salt. The Aria is the first camera I have owned which has any auto-exposure capability, and I assume that has something to do with the perceptible lag between pressing the shutter release and the actual firing. In this regard I have read that the Aria is better than some and worse than others. Just today I was out shooting with my venerable Contax IIa. Now there is a shutter that fires the instant you hit the button and by comparison it made the Aria seem like it took a week to complete the exposure. But go for the Aria. It has loads of great features.
Mike.
 
O

ou1954

>Posted by Neil Baylis (Neilb) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 6:53 am: > >Hi, > >My first Contax was my G2, which I'm very happy with. I have the 90 >and the 35 lenses. I'm now thinking I want another Contax, and am >drawn to the Aria. I'd like to buy one soon, and probably the 50/1.4 >lens. > >On Kyocera website, I see this stuff about real time shutter release >that happens at the speed of light, blah blah blah. Is this an actual >feature, something that Contax has that others don't? Or is it just >marketing BS? > >This wont affect my decision @ the Aria... I'm just curious. > >thanks, > >Neil

I have an original RTS, short for "Real Time System". I never saw any reference to the speed of the shutter response, in any literature. What I did see was the claim, which is true, that the shutter speed is set just at the instant of exposure.

I would expect that the same is true of the Aria, which I would gladly have if I had the spare cash around. For now I will keep my original RTS, which has some special value, in that it was a limited edition demo with a gold-plated base plate. I think the Aria is an excellent choice and clearly it's smaller and lighter than the RTS which uses an external motor drive.

Good luck, (with a little envy)

DAW
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Don,

> I have an original RTS, short for "Real Time System". I never saw any > reference to the speed of the shutter response, in any literature. > What I did see was the claim, which is true, that the shutter speed is > set just at the instant of exposure.

I'm not quite sure what you man by "the shutter speed is set just at the instant of exposure", or what you think that means. That is the way any automatic camera operates, as far as I know.

To quote directly from the RTS I brochure:

"Real Time is taken from computer terminology. It means the total absence of physical time-lag in the distribution of information." And from reading the brochure, they simply mean that all the information is instantaneous (as opposed to a system like the Canon F-1) for both the display and for the computations it does to choose the shutter speed, and that it was specifically designed to reduce the time from pressing the shutter to exposure.

The metering SPD is located directly above the viewfinder eyepiece, so it can only operate with the mirror down...so the RTS does not operate as was mentioned by someone else (adjusting the shutter speed after the aperture is stopped down). In fact, the brochure gives the sequence of events when the shutter is pressed:

"Depression of the shutter release button activates a micro-switch which instantly energizes an electromagnet and starts a chain-reaction... It activates the TTL full aperture light reading system; triggers the movement of the reflex mirror; stores the light reading information in the memory register; stops down the lens diaphragm to the preselected setting and releases the focal plane shutter."

Note, the meter is read BEFORE the aperture is stopped down, and quite a few things happen between the selection of the shutter speed and the opening of the shutter...so it's not really, in camera time, "just at the instant of exposure"...not that it isn't close, or that it really matters, but I think that terminology doesn't outline what really happens, as some cameras may in fact (someone mentioned the OM-4 and a few others) may compute the shutter speed as the last thing before opening the shutter.

I guess it depends on what one thins of as an "instant". For some, it's an eternity (I deal in pico second designs), and for some, it's a lifetime...

Regards,

Austin
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Hi Neil,

> On Kyocera website, I see this stuff about real time shutter release > that happens at the speed of light, blah blah blah. Is this an actual > feature, something that Contax has that others don't? Or is it just > marketing BS? > > This wont affect my decision @ the Aria... I'm just curious.

I have an Aria and an RTS-III and I'm not sure that the Aria is any faster/slower than the RTS-III. It's hard to tell, as the Aria winder isn't near as fast as the RTS-III winder (which is but a tiny chirp), and audibly, the RTS-III sounds faster...but that's because of the winding, not the shutter delay.

The Aria is a simply outstanding camera (with minor matrix metering issues that should be spoken about in the archives, and as a note, I have not experienced any metering issues). The only thing is the camera is small, and for longer lenses (like 180) it may seem to get "lost" in the lense, and be a bit unbalanced. I use the 85/1.4 on it routinely (and the 35/1.4, my two favorite lenses...that is until I use the 18/4, then that's my favorite lense, until I use the 16/2.8...or most any other ;-) and the camera is superbly balanced. It's a quite comfortable camera to use for me, but I guess if you have large hands, it may be small.

The Aria should be a lot faster than the G2, as the G2 has to focus first...which makes is eternally slower, so if the G2 works for you, the Aria should be fine.

Regards,

Austin
 
R

rickd

Hmmm, somewhere I have a list of cameras and shutter response times as measured by Contax themselves. I'll post if and when I find it. Some of the cameras are dramatically faster than others, with the RTSs being the fastest of all (IIRC).

When the RTS was introduced most cameras still had mechanical shutter releases and there were some were bizarre electro-mechanical auto-exposure schemes, so the RTS was dramatically quicker in shutter response than the competition.

By all rights the G2 should be faster than any of the SLRs due to the lack of a mirror, but it wasn't on the list.

--Rick
 
J

jerzy

I've found it (don't remember who wrote that mail - probably Dirk):
"May be it´s interesting for some list members, here is the answer from
Kyocera I got to my question about CONTAX shutter release delay times :

....the shutter release delay time for the requested models are as
follows:

RX 68,8ms
Aria 54,0ms
ST 72,0ms
S2 78,8ms
RTS III 21,8ms

and older models:

167 72,0ms
159 80,0ms
137 53,8ms
139 50,0ms
RTS 39,4ms
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Rick,

> By all rights the G2 should be faster than any of the SLRs due to the > lack of a mirror, but it wasn't on the list.

The G1/G2 have to focus the lense first, which really is quite slow, so I doubt the Gs have low shutter lag.

Regards,

Austin
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Hi Jerzy,

Thanks for the numbers...but one I question:

> > RTS III 21,8ms

I have a very detailed factory service manual for this camera, and it sho ws the timing of the system, and they show around 50ms between when the shut ter button press electronically starts something, until the shutter starts moving. So, I'm not sure I believe that number. I also have a detailed factory service manual for the Aria, and I could check what it shows as well...

Regards,

Austin
 
R

rickd

Hi Austin,

I agree if one's releasing the shutter with the lens "parked" the camera will have to rack out the lens before firing the shutter. You can practically count the seconds when it's a closeup. But I also think in most instances when using the G2, focus is either prelocked when in SAF mode, or the camera is being used in CAF mode with the focus occuring in real time (oops, there's that term again). In either situation I don't discern a delay prior to the shutter's release.

It would be interesting to see the spec. from Contax.

--Rick
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I found a GREAT bag for my G cameras... It's a LowePro Lynx 80. You can see it at the LowePro web site, and you can order it from
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, item # 21080 for $30, includes shipping.

It is a "balistic" nylon bag, very very very small and thin. I can put one body (G1 or G2), with data back, FOUR lenses (90/45/35/28) with shades & caps, plus a tla-140, extra batteries AND four plus rolls of film...in this tiny bag, and they fit PERFECTLY. I've searched far and wide for, what I consider, a perfect bag...as I HATE bags to have room in them, I want my camera bags to be as small as they can, and as large as they need to be, and no larger.

It comes with one divider, which I use to separate the body from the lenses...and I made some other dividers out of some thin black foam (I think they're called "foamies") that I got from Michael's, the craft store. I don't use the lense pouches, but do use the TLA-140 pouch, and that goes in the front pocket.

I just ordered two more, one for my Leica M6, and one for either the Aria or S2...they should fit nice.

Just thought I'd pass this along!

Regards,

Austin
 
N

nomed

I have the 167MT and RSTII models. There seems to be no shutter release delay at all on my RTSII when compared with the 167MT or my Canon Elan II. Sometimes, it is a bit like a hairtrigger.

I don't have an Aria but have looked at one and would certainly consider one in future.
 

pickle

Member
My experience with my RTSII is the same as Rob's, which I find great for action photography: the moment you press the shutter is the moment you get on film. I know there has to be a physical lag, because things take a certain time to happen, but I took some pictures at the indoor motorbike trials in Sheffield UK this month and although some have slight focusing errors and exposure under spotlights was tricky, I always caught the moment.
 
O

ou1954

Just noticed the following on the Tom's corner section of the Nelson Photo= =20 website:

With Great Sadness

2004-01-04

I recently found out that Kodak is no longer going to manufacture the=20 Carousel/Ektagraphic Slide Projector. Being in the business as long as I=20 have I kinda figured that the day would come when it was no longer=20 economical for them to produce something that was seldom purchased anymore.= =20 When I got a personal letter from the AV department at Kodak signed by two= =20 guys who I have known forever it hit home. Heck, this is something that I=20 grew up with. Going with my Dad on Saturday morning to Brown's Photo on=20 Washington St. in Minneapolis, picking up the slides and then looking=20 forward to seeing them on Saturday night. My Mom would make popcorn, my Dad= =20 would on occasion curse the Airequipt projector (no Carousel back then),=20 and my sister and I would tease each other as to how dumb each of us=20 looked. It was good family entertainment! My first photo job was working=20 for a repair shop doing warranty repair on the Carousel 800 which was the=20 second generation of the product. For many years I supplemented my income=20 repairing them on the side. I would enjoy the conversations when people=20 would bring them in for repair. It just stopped advancing was a common=20 response. When I would ask them when was the last time you had it serviced= =20 the answer was usually never. There is a date code and most of the time it= =20 had been in use for 25 or more years. Don't you wish everything you bought= =20 in your lifetime would last that long!

My advice to you is to buy one in the next few months if you have any=20 desire to have one. Service will be around for a few years but eventually=20 that will go away also. The people that know how to repair them really well= =20 will have retired and there won't be enough business to train a new person= =20 to properly repair them.

Digital projection is not as good as a slide projector. This is still the=20 one area along with black and white that film still shines.

Especially in the industry we have complained to no end about some of the=20 crazy products that Kodak brought into the marketplace. The Disc camera is= =20 just one ex&le. However, I will say that the Carousel was an award=20 winning product! Nothing fancy, it just worked for hour after hour. I am=20 sorry to see it go.

The URL for that website is:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and you can=20 scan the section headed "Toms Corner" for other tidbits.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

In another note he responded to a note I sent him from a posting on another= =20 list. It has to do with digital cameras and film stock. He writes as= follows:

Hi Don:

Here are a couple of thoughts that you can pass along. What was said is=20 sadly true. Look at San Diego as an ex&le. The county has 3.5 million=20 people and 3 decent size camera stores left. As far as some of the=20 speciality films etc. are concerned, we are happy to stock anything our=20 customers want provided we can sell enough of the minimum quantities=20 involved from the manufacturer before the film goes out of date. If a film= =20 goes out of date on our shelf my rule is a fair one. I can't stock it=20 because I can't afford to give away the expired film at a 50% loss. I=20 can't stay in business that way!! Sadly there are fewer people who have a= =20 true interest in photography like your group. If there are things that=20 your group wants please let me know and I would be happy to do business=20 with you.

Tom
 

bobbl46

Well-Known Member
Don .... say news indeed!

As a very satisfied user of two 2050's, I can understand your feelings.

I suppose the only good thoughts are that they will probably go on for ever, be available second-hand for years to come, requiring little service, will be cannibalised ad infinitum until only one exists
, and anyone with an inquiring mind and the inclination will be able to service them.

Slightly selfish, I know, but mine will outlast me!

Cheers, Kyocera Kid.
 

colin

Well-Known Member
At least we are still be able to buy quality projectors from Leica and Rollei. I have never been a fan of the Carousel; the optical quality has never been there for me. If you shoot with Leica or Zeiss lenses, the projector should also be top of the line in my opinion
Colin
 

pkipnis

Well-Known Member
don't discount the quality of the carousel with Navatar optics. They also made condensor lenses to correct for the cardboard mounts. If you're really serious about projection, then GEPE mounts are your only choice. Glass or glassless, they will hold the slide as flat as my head!
 
O

ou1954

I think there were several quality levels in the Carousel line. Some for casual use and some for industrial use. I fought the concept for a long time but finally had to buy a magazine so I could show slides at presentations off-site because the Carousel was everywhere and became a standard for commercial use. You could go into any company or government agency with a slide tray and be sure a Carousel would be there.

I think for the most part they ran and ran, and were pretty good at not jamming.

I also think they were acceptible in the optical area, or they wouldn't have been used in industrial applications.
 

bobbl46

Well-Known Member
The S-AV2000 series lenses were quality lenses too. No plastic in these. They were not the budget line that most people would have seen and used.

I can vouch for the Retinar 150mm f2.8.

I tried a Zeiss projector, let me down a couple of times by jamming, it went back to the shop ..... still have my Carousels


Cheers, Kyocera Kid.
 
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