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Rollei Integral vs Integral 2 vs AF

generowe

Member
I am currently considering buying a Rollei...choosing between Integral and Integral 2. I haven't found a lot of information as to the difference between the 3 models. The AF is just too expensive for me at this time.

I am a serious amateur hobbyist. I currently own a Bronica SQa and Pentax 67ii, as well as, Minolta 800si. Since moving MF, however, I find that I am shooting 35mm less and less.

The Rollei I believe would improve the quality of pictures I now take, which is mostly people in a reportage style.


Your help is greatly appreciated.
 

dirk

CI-Founder
Hi Generowe,

take the Integral 2. It has a significant better flare reduction in the body and has a new chip, improved for digital backs etc.

Integral 2 and Integral AF are the same. Only difference is the AF.
 
I can not speak to the qualities or superiority, if any, of the Integral 2
over its predecessor. But I have been shooting with the Integral for about a
year and find that it has totally invigorated my work. When I use this
system, I slow down, think, compose, previsualize and fire. Sensually, the
camera is a delightful tool to use. Solid, robust and beautifully crafted.
And the images are glorious, sharp, and dense with color with a beautiful
almost creamy tonal transition. I have also found the technical support
through Roillei in NJ to be outstanding. When something breaks they fix it
swiftly (within 48 hrs) and reasonably. Clearly, the price of admission is
not cheap. But I bought all my equipment used for between 20-40% of retail.
Good deals can be found on Ebay or in the classifieds of photo.net. I have
never used another MF system. Perhaps I would be as happy if I had gone in
another direction. All I can say is that my move from 35mm to this system
has been positive in every respect. If you intend to shoot street scenes, my
I suggest getting the waist level finder. This is a big and intimidating
camera and it generates a reaction from subjects. Lifting it to the eye
while using the 45 finder looks like a bazooka pointing at you. Keeping the
camera lower with the waist level finder and shooting with a more casual
panning technique will be less spooky for your subjects and less intrusive
in general. Good luck.
 

ivanonline

New Member
The integral 2 I believe uses the same Finder display as the AF. Sort of bridging the gap between the two in order to get the user familiar with or ready for the AF style finder.
 

carlzeiss

Member
If price is an important factor, then jump in with the Integral which you can find at reasonable prices on eBay. I found mine along with a PQ 80mm lens that way, and it came with a 1 year warranty from Rollei because it was a dealer's store demo. The improvements in the Integal 2 WILL NOT improve your compositional picture taking ability as most of the updates are in the information display. If you are metering manually, maybe the newer Integral 2 display readouts will be easier to see....but this is just a conjecture. Using the same lenses on either body, you should get the same results.
 

sonovo

Member
Hi Generowe,

I asked myself the same thing a few months back before I bought an Integral 2 with Schneider 80mm/f2 Xenotar. I also have used a Bronica SQ-Ai (on eBay as we speak) and the differences are in general:

6008i2 is quieter than the Bronica, the mirror slap and motor are tuned to = a lower frequency. The Rollei is *much* heavier than the SQ. I didn't notice any big difference in focusing screens between the f4 Bronica lenses and th= e f2.8 Planar PQS that came with my kit (sold). The Rollei feels and handles like a modern camera, the Bronica is basically a copy of a Hasselblad 500 series (and a much improved one at that ;-) and seems a bit old, and plasticky in comparison. The Bronica jumps in my hands when shooting, the Rollei sits solidly (due to the weight). I suppose I'll get flamed for this= , but I don't expect the image quality to be noticably different between them (unless you shoot test charts as your subject). I've only gotten a few roll= s of chromes back so far, and the optical quality is excellent. But so are th= e Bronica slides I've taken. The PS lenses are very capeable (I rented a Hass= y and the Bronica before buying the Bronica), so I wouldn't recommend getting a Rollei if you want better image quality or better compositions. The latte= r is had by learning to see and practicing, the former by buying a better tripod :) The Rollei will give you an incredibly nice system from an ergonomic point of view, which is why I bought one. Now I don't carry a light meter, don't need an AE prism (never had one, but just the same...), don't need a winder, extra this or that. Everything is integrated, very intuitive and helps me concentrate on getting the picture. In other words the camera doesn't get in the way of the creative process. Kind of like a Mac vs PC thing, the Mac just lets you do your thing, the PC forces you to do everything it's way whether you want to or not. I'm used to working very slowly with the Bronica (get an idea, set up, frame subject, meter light, fine focus, meter light, mirror lockup, meter light, fire shutter, wind crank, move on), the Rollei is almost too fast for me (but it can be used slow or fast, the Bronica only slowly), but I'm getting used to it :)

The following was given to me by a friend in Argentina as the differences between the I and i2:

In general, Rollei 6008 I2 has the following "improvements" and specs(copie= d from a Rollei's brochure):

" The new Rolleiflex Integral2

Now Rollei is launching another highlight within the framework of its Syste= m 6000: the new Rolleiflex 6008 Integral2. This is based on its popular predecessor "Integral", but includes the entire new electronic concept of the 6008 AF with the exception of the autofocus mode. The new model is agai= n a fully integrated part of Rollei's time-proven System 6000. In other words, it is compatible with all the accessories and previous lenses, including the SLX lenses from 1976. Rollei has gone to great length= s to retain the system concept in order to make sure that all photographers already using the System 600 will fully benefit from technological progress=

The Rolleiflex 6008 Integral2 will be available from July 2003.=20

An illuminated LC display is the control center for aperture and shutter speed, film speed, battery status, preflash metering, flash readiness, programmed AE, shutter-priority AE and aperture-priority AE, exposure compensation, spot, multi-spot and average metering, AE lock, vertical/horizontal format as well as an additional frame counter for the 4.5x6 format. The LC display can be disabled.

Additional custom functions can be assigned via the mode switch. The selection is made with the memo button of the camera, the following setting= s being available:

Type of flash synchronization, preflash metering, self-timer, display On/Off, quiet operation On/Off, film-advance suppression On/Off, center-weighting of average metering On/Off, burst rate in continuous shooting and bracketing selection (auto bracketing mode).

In flash technology also, the new model features important improvements ove= r its predecessor: Due to TTL flash control, a positive exposure compensation in the auto exposure mode with a dedicated SCA flash unit will result in additional (additive) flash exposure, ensuring even better balance between fill flash and daylight.

The new SCA-3562 flash adapter developed in cooperation with Metz allows th= e exchange of the following data between the dedicated flash unit (such as th= e Metz 54MZ-3) and the 6008 Integral2:

- Transfer of lens aperture and film speed to control the autosensor mode of the flash unit.

- Reading of flash compensation by the corresponding dedicated flash unit.



In conjunction with a dedicated SCA-3562 flash adapter, the 6008 Integral2 allows the following dedicated flash modes:

- Programmed autoflash - Aperture-priority autoflash - Shutter-priority autoflash - Automatic fill flash (compensating and additive) - Flash bracketing.

In addition, preflash metering is possible without prior mirror lockup or a suitable metering back to check on flash output or optimum aperture for wor= k with studio flash units.

The serial interface of the Rolleiflex 6008 Integral2 makes it possible to use digital backs without any connecting cables. Gold-plated contact strips on the camera serve to control the different modes. Diaphragm and shutter blades controlled by linear motors ensure absolute freedom from vibrations during 16-shot exposures with a digital back. As a result, users can be sure that their hardware investment is sound and safe.

Another decisive advantage of the Rolleiflex 6008 Integral2 is the possibility of individually programming its functions via a PC. Rollei's MasterWare software on CD-ROM and a connecting cable for the universal 14-pin connector of the camera give users the choice of practically free programming and remote control of the camera.

Rolleiflex 6008 Integral2

Specifications

Camera type 6x6 single-lens reflex system camera with multiple exposure control, variable metering mode, TTL autoflash (SCA-3000) and motorized film advance=

Frame sizes 6x6 cm and 4.5x6 cm

Film sizes Sizes 120 and 220 roll film for 12 or 24 6x6cm frames or 16 or 32 4.5x6cm frames. Instant film pack for 10 6x6cm frames.

Film speeds From ISO 25/15=B0 to ISO 6400/39=B0 can be set on interchangeable magazine in increments of 1/3 EV.

Shutter Electronically controlled between-the-lens shutter with speeds from 1/1000 = s (PQS lenses) to 30 seconds and B, stepped in one-third increments.

Exposure metering 1. Center-weighted multi-zone metering

2. Spot metering with central photo diode (approx. 1% of frame size= )

3. Multi-spot metering with up to five readings

4. Automatic compensation of retroincident light during metering an= d exposure

Exposure modes 1. Shutter-priority AE

2. Aperture-priority AE

3. Programmed AE biased for fast speeds

4. Metered manual in one-third increments

Metering ranges Exposure: EV =AD1 to 19 at ISO 100/21=B0, f2/80 mm

TTL flash: ISO 25 to 1600

AE lock Functional in all automatic exposure modes, locking both shutter speed and aperture (exposure value).

Exposure compensation 1. Manual setting from =AD4 2/3 to +2 EV in one-third increments.

2. Via autobracketing (S=B1 pos.) over =B12 EV (autobracketing with 1/3EV or 2/3EV increments)

Autoflash TTL OTF metering. Flash readiness and exposure control displayed in viewfinder. Possibility of automatic flash firing in low light, in conjunction with Metz flash units; compensating and additive fill flash.

TTL studio preflash metering In conjunction with studio flash units.

Flash synchronization Full synchronization at all shutter speeds from 1/1000 s to 30 s; hot flash shoe with contacts for dedicated Metz flash units. New SCA interface via Rollei SCA-3562 adapter.

Multiple exposures 1. Film advance can be disengaged in ME position of camera dial; uninterrupted viewfinder image.

2. Film advance can be electronically suppressed without viewfinder image, for digital backs.

Reflex mirror Multicoated partially transmitting reflex mirror with lockup and pneumatic brake, controllable even after lockup.

Viewfinder system Standard collapsible finderhood with hinged magnifier, interchangeable for 45=B0 prism finder, 90=B0 direct-vision finder or rigid magnifying hood. Interchangeable focusing screens. Super-bright High-D screen is standard equipment.

Viewfinder display Illuminated viewfinder LCD for shutter speed and aperture (in one-third increments), metered manual, exposure compensation, spot/multi-spot metering, flash readiness, flash output, custom functions, frame counter, vertical or horizontal format in 4.5x6cm frames, battery status. LCD illumination controlled by ambient light; can be disabled.

Film advance Automatic by integral high-performance motor; single frames and continuous shooting with up to 2 fps. Automatic film prewind to frame 1; automatic windup of film after last frame.

Power supply By rechargeable sintered-plate NiCad battery for about 200 exposures. Rapid charger (110 =AD 240 V, 50/60 Hz) with automatic switch-over to normal charging and 12V connector for car battery.

Handgrip With four click stops (for use with folding hood or prism finder), detachable. Leather wrist strap detachable.

Interchangeable magazines Magazine types 6x6/120, 6x6/220 and 4560 with integral laminar drawslide, frame counter, film-speed dial, film-type display and preloadable film insert. Instant film-pack magazine (10 6x6cm exposures); digital backs.

Custom functions and choices of basic settings 1. Type of flash synchronization 2. Selection of autobracketing 3. Activation of frame counter in display 4. Preflash metering 5. Self-timer 6. Display On/Off 7. Quiet film advance On/Off 8. Film-advance suppression On/Off 9. Center weighting of exposure metering On/Off 10. Burst control during continuous shooting

Terminals 1. 14-pin universal socket for cable release and other electrical triggering devices, with screw thread.

2. Interface for digital backs and PC (MasterWare).

PC linkup Possibility of individual programming and control of all camera functions with optional Rollei software (MasterWare). PC connected to 14-pin universa= l terminal of camera.

Tripod quick-release plate With 1/4" and 3/8" tripod sockets.

Dimensions Without lens: 143 x 139 x 124 mm; With lens 80mm f/2.8: 143 x 139 x 176 mm (without handgrip in each case)

Weight Without lens: 1500 g"

Regards, Thor
 

generowe

Member
Thanks Thor for the vast information. I will need to re-read a couple of times to digest everything that was said.

I too have heard from others that there isn't a great deal of difference in picture quality between Bronica's PS lenses and the Planar lens that comes with the Integral 2. Anyone else has anything to say about this I wonder?

Again thanks to all who provided me with information. I am leaning towards the I2 simply because of the ergonomics, technologoical advances offered by the I2 and hopefully, the camera will allow me to focus on the composition rather than the camera itself as Thor so eloquently stated.
 

geoffrey

Member
For what its worth - another set of opiinions. I got the 6003 about 10 years ago, in part because I didn't need the 5 point meter settings, and I wanted the removable handle and smaller back for travelling.

I use it in Europe on vacations slimmed down (waist level, smaller back) and then expand with 45 degree top and interchangeable backs at home.

I probably would get the 6008 I2 now, due to the digital back interface, if I were to shop.

By the way, I don't agree with the postings on sharpness. While I haven't had a Bronica, I ddi have a Hassy 500 series camera for a few years - and the ROllei just puts it to shame. id on't know what the reasons were (film flattness in the back is a major candidate), but the Rollei shots are dead on sharp and wonderful.

I have a real preference for the 6003/8 series camera for usability and ergonomics - they are a joy. I also have a 60, 90, and 150 Schneider lenses, which are a delight as well. Highly recommended.

Best,

Geoff
 

lainer

New Member
>What do you think of the square format Rolleiflex, the TLR Xenotar 2.8 camera? I can't afford a newer Rollei, but have an older one I use. I am debating on selling it because everyone is jumping into digital. I bought a Nikon D70, and love it. Digital is the future, but what about the old Rollei cameras and film? If the camera quality is better than most, maybe I should stick to film in medium format even though it is a fixed lens camera. I would hate to have to sell this and buy a whole new system. I would imagine eventually, if I turn pro, I will have to buy a system that can have a digital back. It just seems like the older cameras last longer and the new digitals are replaced every month. It is frustrating. >

Lainey
 

carlzeiss

Member
I wouldn't sell your Xenotar TLR for a few reasons:
1. Photographic potential even with fixed focal length lens should not be underestimated. The square format can be very appaling. The weight of the TLR is much les than any 6000 series camera, and so is the bulk. Hence its a wonderful travel companion.
2. With approx. 4X the surface area of 35mm film, if you scan the 6x6 neg/slide, the resulting resolution will be still be better than the D70 esp. if you shoot with a fine grain film like Kodak 160NC.
3. The value of your TLR will actually go up over the years as a collectible, whereas the D70 you bought will only depreciate when the next model update is released by Nikon.
4. Just for fun, see some of my Rolleiflex 2.8e Xenotar and 2.8f Planar shots here (I still haven't bought a better scanner):
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

sonovo

Member
Hi Geoffrey,

I also considered the 6003 due to the slimmer back and lighter weight, but figured for my use I'd end up getting another magazine pretty quickly. The handle is removable on all models, just optional on the 6003.

The digital back option is nice, but much too costly for me at present. Besides, the computer steals way too much of my life as it is already :)

As for sharpness, as I mentioned I haven't really had time to evaluate the differences closely. The few rolls of chromes I've gotten back looked great, but as I mentioned so have my Bronica PS produced ones. If it is true as you say that I can expect an improved image quality, so much the better for me :) But, it wasn't one of the main reasons for my purchase. Most of my use is handheld, which makes the better ergonomics of the Rollei important (the added heft seems to help stability and allow sharp images while hand holding at slower shutter speeds as well, from what I've read).

Hasselblad magzine are notorious for dodgy fit, and s&le-to-s&le variation is reportedly quite high, so you may have just had a poor ex&le (or two). Still, I agree with you that Rollei seems to have a superior system for ensuring the film stays flat during exposure.

Like you I opted for the Schneider optics (80mm/f2 Xenotar) and hope to add a 40mm/f3.5 Super-Angulon and either 150mm/f4 Tele-Xenar or 180mm/f2.8 Tele-Xenar at some point later when finances allow.

Thor
 

lainer

New Member
>Well, you convinced me to hold onto the camera. I would like to use it for many subjects. I am loving the digital. but think that the quality when I enlarge the picture will be as nice as the Rollei. I guess I am still holding on to film. I embrace digital, but think that it shall be a long time before I can afford ANY digital back along with a new system. Thanks for your advice, and your pictures were fantastic. > Lainey

>>>Posted by Carlzeiss (Carlzeiss) on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 9:36 am: > >I wouldn't sell your Xenotar TLR for a few reasons: >1. Photographic potential even with fixed focal length lens should not >be underestimated.<<
 

butlp

Active Member
> To me, a huge advantage of the TLR (and 6000 series) is the ability to compose on the focusing screen with the waste level finder. I shoot chromes and have them scanned to disk; the turnaround time is 3 days and the scans are inexpensive. When I want to "enlarge" (done in photoshop) an image and get a lot of detail, I then pay the extra $$$ to get a detailed scan done.

The MF negative can be scanned decently on a flatbed scanner with a transparency unit too, and you can't really do this with 35mm.

It takes a lot of cash to get a digital camera or digital back that can beat the properties of a good transparency film in 6x6 format, for detail and the range of tones. And you can crop the 6x6 image to whatever proportions you want (my finished images usually end up as 8x10 or 11x14, I find). So don't get rid of that Rolleiflex! (unless you want to sell it to me cheap of course . . . )

Paul Butler
 

jonathan

New Member
How nice to hear somebody appreciate the waist-level camera! I am so tired of seeing distorted photos of people, particularly children. I heard that Rollei had produced a waist-level digital camera, but so far I haven't found out where and for how much it is on sale. There is also a lot to be said for square pictures. Sergei Eisenstein wanted to use this format for movies, but even he could not make this come about. Jonathan
 
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