DPR Forum

Welcome to the Friendly Aisles!
DPRF is a photography forum with people from all over the world freely sharing their knowledge and love of photography. Everybody is welcome, from beginners to the experienced professional. Whether it is Medium Format, fullframe, APS-C, MFT or smaller formats. Digital or film. DPRF is a forum for everybody and for every format.
Enjoy this modern, easy to use software. Look also at our Reviews & Gallery!

Sony to consider developing body for Contax N Mount

Happy CRISTmas to you all,

May the joy of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you all, and not just for the day. Remember it it not called Christmas because of the presents and the food and drink!!

I hope Father Christmas, Saint Nicolaus, Santa Clause et all brings you what you need and want, (ie NDII & G3, 30 mp full frame or better, N, G & C/Y lens mount, 1000 shots per battery charge, RAW Preview, etc, 21 & 35mm f1.4 N Distagons, and cheaper than Canon/Nikon)!!

Oh and a wonderful dentist for Marc, who will do a house call for $20.

Paul
 
"This colour tone cannot be reproduce by using Zeiss lenses on Canon bodies, the ''Zeiss" feel is just not there." I said.

''Huh? Sorry to be contrary again. This has everything to do with how your file management is set up in post processing, and little to do with how the camera is "tuned". Marc said.

Just some questions to Marc. I shoot JPEG with Sony 717, 828 and R1, I loaded them into the iPhoto of Apple, they all look very "Zeiss" to me. I don't need to process them at all.

On the other hand, if I shoot JPEG with 10D on Zeiss lenses, they don't look "Zeiss" to me at all.

419264.jpg

This was taken with 10D Zeiss C-Y 100 2 camera colour balance to flash.


419265.jpg

The second image was taken with Sony 717 camera colour balance to flash.

Both of these were the same person taken in ISO100, studio flash, same place in the room. Apart from image resizing for the web, no colour balance were done after shooting.

The different results are very much to do with how the cameras are 'tuned'.
.
 
Okay Joseph, since a toothache has me up in the middle of the night, I'd be happy to respond to your post ... mostly to share with others ... again, I am not disputing that the Sony is a fine camera worthy of serious consideration ... and it is nice to see a beautiful woman as the subject rather than test charts : -)

First off, you have presented 2 pictures who's only commonality is the subject. They were shot at different times in different light: The light direction is obviously different on the Canon shot, and the light quality is slightly more contrasty on the Canon shot. The Canon shot is slightly overexposed for a portrait, and the Sony shot is slightly underexposed. That has nothing to do with how the Camera is "tuned" except perhaps how it comes from the factory with a default settings. With most cameras, default settings are for average conditions.

In addition, the Canon shot is slightly cooler in color temperature. This is very much in keeping with the tendency of many Zeiss lenses to be a touch cooler in feel than say Leica R lenses for ex&le. You have to have shot neutral transparency films to have witnessed this. It is not pronounced, but subtile. So even though it is not properly exposed, I find the Canon shot color temperature to be more in keeping with my previous experiences with Zeiss glass.

It has to be said that the Canon 5D is a sophisticated camera with some consumer features you won't find on the 1DsMKII. To take advantage of those features you have to set the camera to your tastes (which differ person to person and from condition to condition). These settings are primarily for jpeg shooters as RAW files tend to be exactly that: RAW ... allowing all settings to be altered after the fact.

If you read the manual on the 5D, you'll see almost anything can be achieved to taste. The camera comes set to a standard default, but the picture style can be altered at will and saved. For ex&le, you can select "Portrait" style which is slightly warmer in temp, and less contrasty than the default "Standard" picture style.

The point is that you can "tune" the camera to your taste when shooting jpgs ... and then change it for different conditions. The menu allows you to register 3 different "User Default" settings marked #1, #2 and #3. You can also control color temp. and tune exactly to personal preferences.

Here's an ex&le of the Canon menu selections: (I'll get to the pictures in the next post) ...



419268.jpg
 
Now, if you download the photos posted by Joseph, and open them in Photoshop, then check the levels you can see how the toe of the histogram doesn't reach the far right.

Here I've made adjustments to the Canon shot to simulate less contrast and a warmer color temperature ... both of which can be set in the camera by selecting your menu preferences discussed in the post above.

While I can simulate some things like color temperature, I can't totally alter the original lighting, nor the ability of the larger Canon sensor to register the fine detail possible with a Zeiss lens such as the 100/2. More of the micro contrasts of the Zeiss is captured and shows up in skin areas and the hair.

In a way, Joseph is right in that the Sony may come from the factory with defaults set for the lens included. After all, Canon doesn't sell Zeiss glass.

However, 5 minutes with the Canon and a Zeiss lens, and you can set your own "Defaults" to taste and register them as one of the user "Default Settings" ... then go there anytime you mount a Zeiss lens on your Canon 5D. This way you can get the absolute best from your existing C/Y lenses, while still retaining a second or third "User Default" setting for your Canon AF lenses.


419272.jpg
 
Further demonstration: Here is a grey chart used for commercial temperature balance. It was shot with a D5 using a Profoto D4 generator box and profoto strobe heads... which are daylight balanced to 5,500K (the amount of light and temperature of the light is a constant with these pro level, digitally controlled strobes).

The Canon 5D menu Temperature controls were set to the Maximum adjustment at either end (2,800K & 10,000K) to show how a Neutral grey card can be effected by how you set the temperature in the camera. Jpegs were shot of each and the level adjusted to provide absolute white and absolute black.

The third one is an ex&le of a RAW file simply using the eye dropper to neutralize the color temperature. It's there as a control to show what neutral looks like (if it has a color cast to it, then your monitor needs calibrated).

The point is that you can set all kinds of aspects that effect picture quality right out of the 5D when shooting j-pegs. The options are there to go beyond the strictly default amateur settings from the factory. Very good if you shoot Zeiss lenses and want them a touch warmer.

419275.jpg
 
Correction: The Sony photo above was taken with a 717, and the Canon photo was taken a 10D, which if recall correctly also has in-camera user adjustments you can make to control jpgs. The 10D is not a full frame sensor, and yet still appears to be registering more skin detail ... but that could be the function of the more contrasty lighting.

Sorry about the flub up, but the principles are still the same.
 
Thanks Marc,
That is all a big help, perhaps especially to a person like me who is still a digital switherer mainly on the grounds of cost.
I hope your tooth is better.
did you try the cloves?
John
 
Hi Marc,
I don't know if you have seen this but if not I wonder if that is the reason for the problem you had - with the camera that is not your tooth.
John


January 3rd, 2006




Dear Hasselblad/Imacon owner,

Warning: Adobe Bridge can potentially corrupt 3f files!

We have come across a serious issue with using Adobe Bridge on a Mac to alter metadata or ratings of 3f files.

When doing this Bridge will add an XMP meta data tag to the file AND unfortunately it will also make some incorrect updates to the 3f TIFF header.
This can lead to various results but a typical symptom is that opening the image in FlexColor will show an incorrect noisefilled preview.

Attempts to use the detail view or saving an image will usually work since the raw data itself hasn't been affected.

Hasselblad and Adobe are working on a solution to this problem, but meanwhile you should not manipulate 3f files in Bridge on a Mac.

Hasselblad will contact you when the problem has been solved.


Best regards
Carsten Kronborg
After Sales Manager







__________ NOD32 1.1350 (20060103) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
 
Back
Top