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G2 Newbies Observations

Hello Mike,

>> What a lot of people don't know is that there >> are some Ilfochrome labs that actually print >> digitally on to the same material

>That is true, and that's why it's always a good idea to ask them specifically how do they make these prints.

Must admit, I haven't ever seen a Cibachrome done digitally. I would think that it's possible to get outstanding quality from a digital output.



--> The other "R" process, commonly known as R3 and > R3000 etc. was a standardized process common to > at least Kodak and Fuji etc.

>That actually confused me a little. Do you mean that it's no longer used? Then what type of R process A&I uses for instance? ( http://www.aandi.com/custom.html#2 ) I know that these "Type 35" papers that Fuji makes are processed in R3 chemistry, so I'm not sure what you meant?

Wow!!, great to know there are still labs doing R printing as described by A&I. And their prices seem pretty good too knowing how difficult a process it is. Guess I could have been more clear. Ilfochrome is exclusively an Ilford product. The other "R" process like R3, and R3000 etc. is a universal process like C-41 and E-6 etc. I came close to bringing the process to my lab but the codes started to show it as special order even a few years ago. Knowing the way stuff is being slashed, I would have expected them to have knocked this one off too. Good to know it's still available. If you haven't tried it, u'll probably be pleasantly surprised.

--->>Interesting. Never heard of them before, perhaps I should give them a call. Incidentally, do you know anything about Holland Photo in Austin, Texas? ( www.hollandphoto.com ) or Created For Life in Australia? ( http://www.createdforlife.com/services.htm )

Not familiar with either of these labs. I would imagine you would be in good hands because in my eyes, any lab owner that's daring enough to offer Ilfochrome is likely the really caring type.

--->Speaking of digital printers, I was always curious to hear first-person info about differences in print quality on these printers. So far I have seen only LightJet prints (seem to be most popular here in California), so I wonder what's the difference in terms of colour/contrast and detail between say Chromira (LED), LightJet (laser) and whatever CRT printer you're using?

That's one heck of a question and I really don't consider myself even close to an authority on the subject. I've seen a lot of really good prints, and bad prints too. Problem is, often times one doesn't know where they came from. Trade shows usually dazzle you with images that rarely have any common thread with day to day production. And naturally they are the best of the best like file prep etc. I'm sure they all have their strengths and shortcomings only to be discovered if you hang around long enough. Our CRT does a pretty good job overall but it does have it's quirks too. You can tell a lot from a printed I-T8 target.

Which one is the best? I hate to be a cop out but in my best opinion all I can say is "that depends". They all have the ability to render images plenty sharp. I think it's believed that laser is considered the sharpest and usually the fastest in production speed, though that may be wrong now that the Chromira has recently multiplied it's production speed by a factor of 5 and able to retro fit existing units too, so I'm told. One of the problems with laser outputs has been achieving rich blacks (D-Max). Because of the speed of the laser, papers have been reformulated (digital RA-4) to deal with reciprocity failure from exposures times that are in nanoseconds. It (D-max) may now be an issue of the past but the replacement costs of laser guns are still a real issue. But don't discount the LED printers, (Chromira, Pegasus etc). I've seen some great stuff from these printers too. LED printers are generally considered more stable and less expensive to purchase and maintain.

I seem to notice Lightjet and Lambda (laser) printers are more often found in commercial labs, probably because they incorporate more text etc with imagery, LED and CRT in wedding / portrait / school labs which require smooth realistic images.

Again, the printers and their capabilities are all water under the bridge if you don't have the best in files. And that's another world altogether.

Paul
 
Tim,

Thank you for the kind words.

--->PS I've seen some pretty darned nice stuff being printed via 4000dpi scanner and pigmented inkjet printers though, but then again, I'm not very sophisticated when it comes to colour.

Having a trained eye can be a curse sometimes. I don't often see inkjet prints with delicate, smooth and open shadow detail. That still seems to be the digital holy grail and a curse to anybody who has been spoiled by good traditional B&W prints especially. I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

Truth is, I still love the smell of fixer :)

Paul
 
An update to the original thread. I promised a couple of fast observations to the camera to match with the original purpose of this thread. Its that time of year and I've only managed to send 3 rolls of film through the camera: TMAX100, Astia, Velvia. My work flow is to scan slides/negatives using a Canoscan 4000 scanner into Photoshop and view/print to a Canon 820 printer. A couple of observations on the G2:

1) The people who like this camera for the optics are 100% absolutely correct. I've just shot using the 45 lens so far, but so far the results (subjective) have been outstanding. I first used my 4000 dpi scanner, and the resolution is better than what my scanner can pick up. I have done a couple of comparatives with similar shots taken with my CZ 50/1.7 @5.6 and 85/2.8 @5.6-8 lenses and the results were rock solid. I have also scanned these slides using a Minolta 5400 scanner, and the results were the same. The optics resolution flaws are lower than what the scanner can detect. I guess that I could do the same of a drum scanner, but to me, it’s too much. That’s beyond the detail that I will likely ever print. (For those that think that Digital can resolve at parity with film, forget it. I'm getting nice solid 40-50 lp/mm, I never see this done by digital but in all honesty, I have never used a 10 MP+ camera in real life. (BTW, I use low end digital (4 MP) for candids mostly using a Sony/Zeiss lens and love the work flow, but for more critical work, IMO, it can't compete.)

2) So moving on, now that I've said that I see no superior resolution between the few CZ MF lenses, I have to say that I like and prefer the and believe that the contrast that the G2 lens is superior. There, I said it. The only backup up I have to that comment is that for low contrast elements within the image, the scanner is picking up much better detail than I’ve ever seen. I love this lens. An absolutely incredible about of low contrast detail comes out. What a strength.

3) Bokeh is the typical Zeiss beautiful. No issues, pleasing, no complaints.

4) Camera use – Okay, the focus for the camera that I bought is dead (I mean DEAD) on. Three rolls, not a single out of focus shot. Flawless so far. IT DOES HAVE TROUBLE GETTING TO FOCUS SOMETIMES. When it does, it tells you by the “No Focus” indicator, or it is grossly out and incorrect in the distance indicator. This is easy to live with. What is interesting is that I am really, really starting to pay attention to DOF on this camera. For some inexplicable reason, more than my other CZ stuff. I haven’t come to a conclusion on why.

5) My first B&W film. This is hard stuff. My workflow is set up for color and I don’t have a lot of experience in scanning negatives and printing B&W. Lets just say, that I’m still learning (and will likely continue to do so for the rest of my life). Like I said, its different, hard and you need to think differently. My opinion so far is that color can hide a lot.

6) Astia vs Velvia. I am a long time user of Velvia and will continue to be one. That being said, the Astia is a remarkable slide film. Really liked the color (outdoors) that I got. I’m sold on this film in just one roll. I love Fuji about as much as I love the G2.

So, in summary and in my opinion, resolution – thumbs up, contrast – major thumbs up, bokeh – thumbs up, color – thumbs up. No issues with focusing, B&W is hard. Enough for this note, I’ll add over the next month when I have some time to do some serious picture taking over the holidays. The flash side of this camera and my learning curve is not yet been tried.

Joe
 
Joe,

Thanks for your cogent observations. It's an excellent reminder of what a special system the G cameras are. Despite their having been on the market over a decade, I think they're still the best kept secret in 35mm photography.

I wish you much continued success (and for God's sake, get the 21!)

--Rick
 
Joe, thanks a lot for a so lovely report. About B&W films, T-Max is very very difficult to scan well with a slide scanner and I would like to suggest you Ilford XP2. Not onl it's a first class B&W film, but it also scan easily. Happy Xmas, Luis
 
TMax is a lousy film to scan. Matter of fact, I'm not really impressed with it as I used to be. Anything I've scanned TMAXX, has always required a lot of PS. Let this be an ex&le
164493.jpg
 
It's hard to tell, but it looks very good to me. What is the problem with this particular picture? You have black blacks, white whites and a very nice gradation. Are you unhappy with the chromes maybe?
 
The problem comes from scanning TMAXX. Unlike C41 B&W, TMAXX comes out very 18% grey through the tonal range. It requires a lot of work with levels and curves. T400CN doesn't need as much work when scanned.
 
Hi

Just bought myself a G2. Love it ! I'll be making a trip to Beijing and was told that the G2 will not work under extreme temperatures. Its winter in Beijing, and temperature there probably below zero degrees Celsius

Does anyone have any experience with the G2 under very cold conditions ?

thanks...CHH
 
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