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Zeiss 21mm madness at Ffordes

grumpoid

Well-Known Member
Hiya all,

So I know the CZ 21mm is lovely, but is it THREE THOUSAND POUNDS lovely?...I think not, especially as the last known UK new price was exactly HALF that and yet Ffordes the UK Contax dealer thinks so.....how about all CZ 21mm owners spill the beans and tell us what they paid for their own CZ 21mm and has it been worth it?

Cheers Steve....(it seems all the more crazy as CZ 21mm prices have slipped back in recent months to about £1500)
 

biggles3

CI-Supporter
Hiya Steve, £3k is very much OTT but, with some of the lenses (like their 55 1.2), they are commission sales and the owner sets the price on top of which Ffordes have to accommodate their profit + VAT. Sometimes, owners of gear can be wholly unrealistic about the market value of an item - it is often lower than the value to the owner. The result - the lens doesn't sell and after a while the price may drop to a more reasonable level or the owner negotiates a private sale. The market usually wins in the end. I'll see what happens when I list my 85 1.2AE, 2 75-210s and my 16mm - I know how much I think they're worth but it's the market that'll have the final say.
Cheers,
Graham
 

jsmisc

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be be more sensible to buy a G 21 and a G2 body for maybe £800 total and still achieve superb results rather than lash out 3 grand on a lens alone?
 

wang

Well-Known Member
I agree with John.

The other alternative is to get an old Leica M and but a new Zeiss M Biogon 21 2.8.

However, Contax C-Y 21 is unique that it is able to focus as close as 22cm with very good resolution even at corners. The G21 or ZM21 is able to do 50cm.

The last alternative is to wait for 6 months to 12 months. I strongly believe that Zeiss will come up with new wide angle for Nikon F.

They said that they are going to have 6 new lenses. The first one is a normal lens 50 1.4. The second one is a short tele 85 1.4. The third one is again a normal lens 60 but with f2 this time. The forth one is the first member of the wide angles 35 with f2.

We have to guess the fifth and the sixth one. Zeiss do not normally have primes between 60 and 85. The likely candidates for these are

1. 100 macro

2. They will definitely come up with at least one lens wider than 35mm.

Good lens remain being so with time. Sometimes when I shoot with the Biogon ZM21, despite it being a new design, it might not be as good as C-Y 21 but only less so by a small margin.
 

wang

Well-Known Member
The recent introduction of Nikon F lenses accounts for the drop in the e-bay price for C-Y 21 2.8
 

grumpoid

Well-Known Member
Hi Joseph, I believe you are wrong about the CZ 21 price drop..I do not think the announcement of the ZF range has had any effect whatsoever, especially bearing in mind there is no commitment from Zeiss of any sort about a potential ZF 21mm. I think it is simply the old case of the laws of supply and demand taking there usual toll. About 12-18 months ago, the CZ 21 was very hard to find even on ebay and the prices were £2000-2500. Then lots of owners of the CZ 21mm saw the mad prices and jumped on the bandwagon and lots of CZ 21mm began appearing on ebay, at one point I saw one every two weeks or so !!! consequently all the buyers who really wanted one bought and the prices very predictably dropped. This happens often on ebay, someone gets a mad price for something, other people who own the same item quickly list theirs, there is a spate of the so-called 'rare' item and then everyone gets bored and the market for the item becomes saturated. This is exactly what has happened over the last year with the CZ 21mm. Cheers all...
 

wang

Well-Known Member
Well, the price drop happened just after the anouncement. The drop was from USD3400 to USD2222. I knew it because I was involved in it. Once the seller knew about the anouncement, they wish to sell it quick. Once the buyer knew about it, they wish to wait and see if the new series has the magic 21 or similar ones.

OK, the best thing is to wait and see who is correct. It depends on what the new toys will be.

Come on, if Zeiss is going to start a whole new series, it will cover focal length like 21. It happened in ZM series.

Even if Zeiss make a new 21 for ZF, I don't think it is a serious commitment at all to Zeiss. This company is GINORMOUS. Making a new 21 for ZF is nothing, it is just extremely easy for her to do so.

So far, Zeiss has always cover 21 mm in all their 35mm gears. In the C-Y, N, G, ZM all these have 21 no matter primes or zoom. For some unknown reasons, Zeiss is very conscious in making a good 21 for every series. All the 21s, no matter which series, as long as it is Zeiss it must be good. It is one of the strong points of Zeiss which make a difference from the other lens company.

So you think Zeiss will not make a 21 for the new series, how much do you wish to bet ?
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
"how about all CZ 21mm owners spill the beans and tell us what they paid for their own CZ 21mm and has it been worth it?"

I paid £800 for mine and yes, it has been worth every single penny. Next to the 85mm f1.2 it is my favourite lens.


Penberth, Cornwall. 21mm f2.8, Aria, Velvia 100F.
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
Oh, I forgot to mention, I bought it mint/used from Ffordes about 2 years ago.
How times change (and prices!).

Cheers,
Matt
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
Thanks John, we posted at the same time.

Actually this is the previous "F" version, not the new 100.
Initially I didn't like it at all, it has a very distinctive look. But over the past year I've grown to really like the look for certain landscapes, it's sort of painterly, if that's the right word.

Although the Canon 5D is a great camera, film still offers something that digital cannot, and it's nice to have the choice.
I usually carry either my Aria or S2b as well as the 5D, and this scene didn't look nearly as attractive with digital.
 

jsmisc

Well-Known Member
How can such an increase be justified, I muse. Sounds like it may be a spot of profiteering.
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
I think it's just a simple matter of supply and demand.
If there are no more new ones coming, and no manufacturer to set a maximum new price, then it's really down to what someone is willing to pay.

I believe the lens they have now is brand new, and for collectors that is almost impossible find, and I think that is where the high premium is found - with collectors, and not photographers like us.
It will be interesting to see if they get the price.

Cheers,
Matt
 

jsmisc

Well-Known Member
Cheers, Matt.
I think I am going to stay with film. I had thought I would switch but I don't think I will except for shots as I do now for instant use on the computer with family.
Staying as is will save much money in not having to buy a DSLR and lenses and I don't generally need speedy results.
I do enjoy keeping up with the developments though and the new Panasonic does look as though it is going to be very nice...
The 21 would be a lovely lens to have and I expect you are right about collectors. Ffordes are in my experience a very good firm to deal with.I wouldn't wish to cast aspersions on them.
I wish I had had the foresight to do as you did and buy one some time ago.
John
 

grumpoid

Well-Known Member
Hi all..

Joseph....I fully expect Zeiss to make a ZF 21mm or at the very least something very close....I just said they had made no commitment yet to do so, which they have not. Matt...the Ffordes CZ 21mm is NOT new, it is mint- (used) and does not even have a box!!! I think I would like a box for THREE grand.

Cheers
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
Ouch!! Agreed. I thought it was new in the box.
Mint- and no collectors bits? I think they may struggle!
 

grumpoid

Well-Known Member
Hey Matt... I have sent an email to Steve at Ffordes and told him if he sells it for 3k I will eat my trousers.
 

snikolaev

Well-Known Member
Guys, this madness continues on ebay... And I have a question. I recently realized that for the same amount of paper with portraits of former presidents of the USA I can buy a Contax 645 with Distgon 35mm attached to it. It gives the same angle of view as the Distagon 21mm attached to a 35mm camera. And I have a feeling that it will give me <font color="ff0000">better picture. But how better is it? Does anyone here have both setups? Any comparison? This would be great to know. Thanks!
 

deshojo

Well-Known Member
Steve,

Have you noticed that the 21mm has gone from Ffordes listings.

I wonder if it's time to get the HP sauce ready, those trousers are going to make chewy meal!
 
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