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ZeissIkon Super Ikonta

W

writing4me

Hello everyone,
I'm curious if anyone knows how this might be done with one of the Super Ikontas, if it can be done at all.

I was reading about other medium format rangefinder cameras that offer a close focussing attachment. For ex&le, with the Mamiya 7 II, you can buy a bracket that attaches to the bottom of the camera that lets you compose at 10.4 inches looking through a wire frame extended in front of the camera. You can only shoot at this one distance, and the lens has to be set to 1 meter I think. I keep wondering, if this is only a means of showing where the frame lines would be with that physical frame in front of the camera, why can't that be done with any rangefinder - like the Super Ikonta? The only thing I don't understand is HOW you would know where the framing should be. I am not explaining this well - mostly because it is a new concept to me - but if anyone has any thoughts, could you please comment? Would you be able to set it up by looking through the "ground glass" ?

Thanks very much,
-Lynn
 
W

writing4me

Hello Everyone,

Problems with a purchase. Please help me get a grasp on this situation. I've just purchased my first Zeiss-Ikon Super Ikonta 532/16 folder. My first ever medium format folder. I paid $245 + shipping for it from a seller on Ebay. It was to have been fully restored to like new working condition. It was sold as a user rather than a collectible due to showing signs of average use. I was looking for a good shooter, so this seemed perfect to me.

The camera arrived a few minutes ago and I am very worried. Before I contact the seller, I want viewpoints of others who know these cameras. I have been using the manual posted by one of the other members of the list, so I understand how it works.

(1) When looking through the lens (Tessar 80/2.8) with the back open, from the front or from the rear, there is a distinct white haze in the lower right (lower right when viewed from back) of the lens. Is this fungus?

(2) The shutter speed ring turns very hard and feels like it could take the skin off my fingers it moves so hard.

(3) The aperature ring won't move at all. Is there a trick? A button to push first? I won't push it hard as I don't want to make it worse.

(4) The camera back opens very hard! On the OUTSIDE of the back, it says Super Ikonta 532/16 and this is supposed to be a 6x6 camera. The opening for the film carrier looks 6x6, HOWEVER, st&ed into the metal of the door- back, on the inside of the camera, it says Zeiss Ikon Film B2 - 6x9 * 2-1/4" x 3-1/4" * Is this normal??? There is a great deal of paint loss inside the camera around the film carrier area.

(5) There is a dent on the bottom of the camera, on the metal strip just below the door that opens for the bellows. There is a very slight depression on the back of the camera just next to the N of Ikon.

(6) Just a few minutes ago, the wind mechanism for the film advance suddenly decided not to stop at all... you can continually wind it.. but that doesnt' allow me to fire the shutter any longer! (Earlier it was working)

(7) I almost forgot to mention, the focus wheel turns somewhat hard, but gets very stiff at one point around 20 feet (before infinity) then loosens up a little as it reaches infinity.

Am I right in gathering that this is a lemon? Have I beed duped, or am I being too hard on the camera?

Please please advise!

Thank you, -Lynn L.
 

jsmisc

Well-Known Member
Dear Lynn,
I don't know anything about that camera model but it does sound extremely dubious from what you write. Can you get back to the seller and voice your concerns? It sounds very disappointing.
Best,
John
 

neilb

Active Member
> Lynn,

it doesn't sound good. It's common for the shutter speed dial to offer a lot of resistance. I've been told never to move it while the shutter is cocked. Mine is especially tight on the maximum speed, but everything works OK. The aperture should move easily. Open the shutter on B and watch the aperture open and close. The focus should also be smooth. I don't have the exact camera you have, (mine doesn't have a rangefinder) so can't give you better advice. There is a classic camera forum on photo.net where you will be able to get expert advice about it:
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You paid a relatively low price for this camera, and it might be worth getting fixed up by a technician. But from the way you describe it, it doesn't sound like a good user.

good luck,

Neil
 
> Lynn,

If it was advertised as working perfectly then it should do so. Look into complaining through ebay, they likely have some way of dealing with this, and contact the seller and inform them of your dissatisfaction. Check the sellers ad and see if they have a return policy or if they sold it 'as is'.

Paul
 

artie

Member
I have this same camera and the speed setting wheel turns hard too. = The focus and the aperture turn freely. The film advance is a bit = quirky. If I remember right you should open the back door close it the = try to advance the film forward. When it stops push down on the frame = indicator and turn it to 1 the cock the shutter and fire. If this does = not happen then there is probably a lot of dirt in there or old = lubrication. There is a site which shows step by step how to tear the = film advance apart. Do a Google search for this. Cleaning the shutter is = more involved. For this you should send it to a pro. Hope this helps.

Art Schlaman
 
W

writing4me

Thank you all for your advice. This was from a seller who restores classic folders regularly, and this camera was sold to me as a fully repaired to WORK as good as new, even though it was described as looking like a user. I think it is time to put this information to the seller and see if he stands behind his gear. By the way, I have gotten the shutter to fire again, but I can't say why it suddenly started working again. I've looked closer at the haze in the lens, and it is most apparent when looking out a bright window, then you can also notice what I can only describe as an ugly snowflake in there too. It is very disappointing as I wanted to use it this weekend on the fall colors. I'll let you know how it turns out. -Lynn L
 

pecker

Member
Hi Lynn, Sorry to read of your camera problems. It sounds as though you have gotten some good advice from other list members. I have the name of a technician that works on these cameras, if you are interested. Please contact me directly and I will forward it to you (I have the same camera in perfect condition and love using it). I hope that you can salvage your fall color weekend.

Doug
 
W

writing4me

Just to follow up, I have good news.

But first, Art you were right about the film advance quirk causing the disabled shutter and continual winding of the film advance.. what a quirk that is... Thank you!

I have heard from the seller. He stands behind his camera. He asked that I return it and he will make everything right. I think that is a fair enough offer and I will see how that goes. The only issue I am uncertain about is the lens itself. It is the Opton Tessar and I was told by other people that is easy to clean. The seller feels that it is most definitely NOT fungus, but that whatever it is will not affect image quality. I will have a friend look at the lens this weekend to diagnose what I am seeing. He recognizes things like this better than I do.

Thank you all for the good advice. It most certainly helped. At least I could make an intelligent message to the seller based on what you all told me.

Best, -Lynn PS: Doug - I would still like to hold onto the name of your repair person if you don't mind? Feel free to email me at Lynn at turnkeydesign dot net (address broken up to fool the spammers)
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Lynn,

Just wanted to say I'm impressed by your forays into camera classics. In the '70s, I cut my teeth on a 6x6 folder (marked 1946, W Germany US Zone). Now, you and Luis are inspiring me to revisit this realm.

Ebay is a valuable source, but even more important is finding a professional to keep the equipment running! In my case, the camera catching my eye is the Contax IIa and the professional is Henry Scherer. From the fellow's web site, the matter of tearing the camera apart, cleaning each piece, and then reassembling everything is a significant chore.

Once done, these old cameras are ready to perform like new (or better), and the whole process can be repeated for the next hundred years. I don't believe my DSLR will get the same lease on life!
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Hi Lynn,

I have many SIs and have many years of experience with them...

> Is this fungus?

If it looks like spiderweb/snowflake, then yes, it more than likely is. Haze is not necessarily fungus, though.

> (2) The shutter speed ring turns very hard and feels like it could > take the skin off my fingers it moves so hard.

It should be stiff, but not hard. Only the highest shutter speed should be quite stiff selecting.

> (3) The aperature ring won't move at all.

It should freely move...but are you sure you are trying to turn the aperture ring?

> HOWEVER, st&ed into the > metal of the door- back, on the inside of the camera, it says Zeiss > Ikon Film B2 - 6x9 * 2-1/4" x 3-1/4" * Is this normal???

Yes, that is simply what the film is called, and has nothing to do with the actual format of the camera. Obviously, it is a 6x6.

> (6) Just a few minutes ago, the wind mechanism for the film advance > suddenly decided not to stop at all... you can continually wind it.. > but that doesnt' allow me to fire the shutter any longer! (Earlier it > was working)

You need the manual ;-) I'll see if I have one already scanned (or you can check on-line)

> (7) I almost forgot to mention, the focus wheel turns somewhat hard, > but gets very stiff at one point around 20 feet (before infinity) then > loosens up a little as it reaches infinity.

That's not good.

I'd send it back to the seller and have him either fix it, or simply give you your money back. The problem I'd have with him fixing it, is he thought it was perfect to begin with, so he's obviously not very good with testing/using/understanding how these cameras work. What was the auction number, BTW?

Regards,

Austin
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Hi Paul,

> If it was advertised as working perfectly then it should do so. Look > into complaining through ebay, they likely have some way of dealing > with this, and contact the seller and inform them of your > dissatisfaction. Check the sellers ad and see if they have a return > policy or if they sold it 'as is'.

"as-is" does NOT give the seller permission to misrepresent the item, and you be stuck with it. If a seller makes a claim, that is all you have to go by, and it should be a true claim. If that claim is simply not true, you should not be responsible for a seller's misrepresentation, intentional or not. I, personally, do NOT accept a seller stating "as is" as allowing them to be fraudulent.

Unfortunately, sellers who aren't responsible for their misrepresented condition, to me, means they knew about it in the first place, and are simply trying to pawn off their junk on me...and they therefore will be very difficult to deal with. Here is one ex&le:

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The seals were goo, the shutter binds, the shutter release is intermittent and the film sprocket is broken. Note, the seller said "movement is precise and the mirror seals are good" and later says "fully functional". Well, he was wrong. Read the feedback I left him, and his absurd retaliatory feedback he left me (I didn't buy this camera for someone else, nor could he have possibly known if I did).

So, I took the rath (in the form of retaliatory feedback) from this schmuck seller, but I did file a fraud report/insurance claim and should be getting $170 minus $25 back from eBay for this. I am trying to get the negative feedback removed using SquareTrade, because it's simply false, and obviously retaliatory. It'll cost me $20 if they get it removed...

Regards,

Austin
 

pecker

Member
Rico, Henry Scherer does a fabulous job with the Contax equipment -- one of the finest technicians that I have ever come across. Has he done any work for you yet? If not, you will be delighted once he does. His lens work and camera work are both superb.

Doug
 
W

writing4me

Rico - thanks very much for the kind words. If it were not for the support of fellow classic users I wouldn't know what I was doing
There are so many people from this board who kindly sent me lengthy emails in private about how to choose and use classics. I'm still learning, but it is mostly a lot of fun! (except for certain days when I mutter unfriendly remarks at a quirky camera) I also dream yet about a Contax IIa too, but I can't quite justify it right now, it has taken a back-seat to the Contaflex and the Super Ikonta lust that I seem to currently have. When those don't seem so new to me anymore, then I will probably hunt down a Contax or Kiev as well. This is a very addicting hobby! Warning to those who haven't ventured into the classics, stay out, you will be over taken by desires to have loads of neat old gear. You raise an excellent point about Henry Scherer. His reputation is sterling. He is the one who pointed me to Mr. Umbach for my Contaflex restoration. (Henry doesn't "do" Contaflex yet)

Austin - thanks for the further pointers! You hit the nail on the head when you said you wondered about whether to allow the seller to fix his mistakes. I've been mulling that over. If this was supposed to be perfect already - what would I get next? And how much postage back and forth do I want to pay until it is right? I have not answered the seller yet. But if my friend does say that the "ugly snowflake" I am seeing is fungus, then I will ask for a refund instead of repair. I also see some anomoly (sp?) in the coating of the lens, it looks like a slightly brighter spot or two, with hard edges. I don't feel comfortable parting with $245 +$12 with a dodgy lens. The point is to have the best lens possible, which is why I wanted the Opton Tessar anyway.

There is something I didn't mention, and that is that there is all sort of fuzz and dust inside the bottom of the camera under the bellows. I mean, when the front door is open and you look under the struts, there is some sort of substance on the struts that this fuzzy looking dust attached itself to. When I asked the seller, he said it was cotton from q-tip swabs from cleaning. Well, it's not very clean and it is the darkest looking cotton I have ever seen.

About the aperature wheel - it is a toothed silver metal wheel, just behind the shutter speed wheel right? I've tried to budge it, but it won't. He says he tightened the lens too much (?!).

Thanks about the manual, I found one online. It was very helpful.

If you want to know the auction, I'll send it to you privately, but I don't feel comfortable posting the guy's name etc in public discussion. I'm not out to hurt the guy - I just want a fair camera for my money - and the more I think about it, I don't think this is it. Anyone is welcome to email me at Lynn at turnkeydesign dot net. This deal hasn't finished negotiation, so I don't know yet what sort of feedback this will entail.

Thanks all, -Lynn L.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Doug,

Glad to get the Scherer recommend. I tripped over his web site just yesterday, so no experiences to report yet. I can either buy the IIa off Ebay and request the über CLA, or request he build the camera from his stock. Decisions, decisions.

I also have a couple of (W German) C/Y lenses that need clearing of haze and recalibration of focus. He sounds willing to work on such lenses (but not bodies of the RTS class). My original plan had been to ship the lenses to CZ Oberkochen, bypassing the black hole of Contax New Jersey.
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Hi Lynn,

BTW, where are you located?

I assume that this is a SynchroCompur shutter, and has a flash sync? If so, it will have a chrome front (the metal cover that is around the lense and rangefinder wedges), instead of a black one...and if so, that's the most desireable model...and if so, the price you got it for, if it was in fact in perfect operational condition, was a reasonably good price.

I have had trouble finding a repair person who will handle these cameras. I have been doing most of the work my self, and some of it is quite tricky. One thing to be VERY careful of with the Super Ikontas, is that if someone disassembled the lense, the focus is probably wrong. It is very difficult to get them to focus spot on...and once disassembled, unless the person reassembling the lense knows how to do it right, the odds are the focus is off. You can check that with a ground glass on the film gate, if you have one...

If you want more information on the film winding, you can give me a call, and I'm happy to walk you through it, or as I offered, I can simply PDF the manual...if I can find it.

Regards,

Austin
 
W

writing4me

Hi Austin, No, not the synchro compur. It is the compur rapid. Around the lens, where it says "compur rapid" and shows the depth of field scale, plus around the rangefinder wedge, it is mostly black, but edged in chrome. (I couldn't find any synchro compurs up for sale) There is a socket/connector on the side of the lens, just next to the rangefinder wedge. I don't know enough about it to say which sort of connection it provides.

I've checked the focus with tracing paper in place of a ground glass. It seems to be right on at 6 feet and as far as I can see it is correct at 7 and 9 feet too. Would I need to check other distances to be certain, or is this good?

Oh, I'm in Wisconsin where the trees are turning yellow, gold and red right now. I'd be glad to talk this over on the phone if you have time. Just let me know where to call and what time might be convenient.

Thanks again -Lynn
 

afranklin

Well-Known Member
Hi Lynn,

> Hi Austin, No, not the synchro compur. It is the compur rapid.

Then it has a black shroud. What does the lettering on the lense say? Is there a red "T" or a "." or an upside down "L"?

> There is a socket/connector on the side of the lens, just next to the > rangefinder wedge.

That sync won't work with an electronic strobe...it's for flash bulbs...

> I've checked the focus with tracing paper in place of a ground glass. > It seems to be right on at 6 feet and as far as I can see it is > correct at 7 and 9 feet too. Would I need to check other distances to > be certain, or is this good?

One distance is good enough...typically, infinity.

> Oh, I'm in Wisconsin where the trees are turning yellow, gold and red > right now.

I'm in MA...if you were local, I'd offer to take a look at the camera for you. The one you have, if it's an "Opton Tessar" and is coated (the red "T" or some other marking), is, IMO, the prettiest of all the SI Bs, and a favorite of mine...though the SynchroCompur is more valuable, and a bit more functional (1/500 plus XM flash).

> I'd be glad to talk this over on the phone if you have > time. Just let me know where to call and what time might be > convenient.

Let me find the manual and send you a link to the scan...

Regards,

Austin
 
W

writing4me

> Then it has a black shroud. What does the lettering on the lense say? > Is there a red "T" or a "." or an upside down "L"?

It has a very faded, barely red "T" It says: Tessar 1:2,8 f=80mm T Zeiss Opton Nr563640

> > That sync won't work with an electronic strobe...it's for flash > bulbs...

That is okay with me. I don't plan to use it with a flash anyway.

> One distance is good enough...typically, infinity.

Rechecked at Infinity - that's fine too, as expected.

Even though I'm not local, thanks for the offer to look it over, it was a nice thought. You are right that this is a nice version of the Super Ikonta. I researched quite a long time before deciding on this one.

The one part that worries me most is the lens. If it is fungus, what would you do with it?

On the positive side, all the shutter speeds appear to be firing fine and at the right timing, as far as I can see by looking through the back (open) as it fires.

Sorry if I'm boring anyone with this thread. I don't mean to - I'm just a little puzzled yet.

-Lynn L.
 
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